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Hip Hop

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by vermae, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    None! Voluntarily...

    Also, please note that I did not say **ALL** secular hip hop and rap was violent...

    I also didn't say that the female artists I was speaking of were Hip Hop artists, either.

    As far as knowing nothing... That is not true...

    But, I tire of this...

    As I evidently can't semantically express myself adequately to be properly understood...

    Either that or you aren't really reading all of what I've written...

    If you had you would have found far more tolerance for the entire CCM genre than you think you were getting.

    Including Rap and Hip hop.

    Which my musical tastes find extremely distastful...

    Mike Sr.
     
  2. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    I understand your stance, and again I am not questioning it. I was talking about the blanket statements you made about the genre. In other words, make sure you back up your comments with fact. Like I said before, I don't care what type of music people like, as long as they permit me to make my own choice as to what I prefer. Sorry if I came across hard, or judgmental. That was not my intent at all. I just reread my post and realized it probably came off as harsh. Sorry! D28, not you, said people dress "goonish" or like "thugs", and I take issue with blanket statements like that.
     
  3. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Filmproducer,

    You said to Spiritual Mad Man...

    That was indeed me, and not him.

    His statement was...

    Mike
     
  4. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Spiritual Mad Man,

    I agree completly.

    Its not just this rap stuff.

    I saw some videos recently on one of the christian networks, and this one group was, as best as I could tell, a "christianised" version of "grunge". They were obviously trying to be a christian version of something like Nirvana.

    Everything I have said about Rap also applies to this noise.

    1st...I couldnt understand one word they were screaming. I assume they were christian lyrics, but I have accept that by faith because 95% of the screaming was unintelligible.

    Rather than to simply stand there and play and sing, they...like the rappers lurching around like goons and thugs...these kids were lurching like some kind of demoniacs on speed or something.

    Thats the problem with so much of what I...and you obviously...see in contemporary christian music.

    Ordinarily I am a huge huge huge advocate for CCM. There are no acceptable vs unacceptable musical forms given in scripture. We have absolute freedom in the area of music.

    But, as you said, some of us are going too far...waaaaaaay too far...with it.

    Rather than simply use a current musical form to communicate gospel and/or godly messages, we are making the step to deliberatly so closely mirror this hellish world and its music, that we become indistinguishible from it.

    It didnt start out that way.

    When the Jesus people (converted hippies) first began bringing "worldly" rock music into the church, they did it while maintaining a clear difference between them THEN, vs them NOW.

    Before, they were stoned on stage and acted like it. They covorted themselves on stage lewdly and sinfully. The looked weird and sinister.

    After being born again all of that stopped. They were different now...and it showed.

    They cleaned up. They brought the volume down. No more lurching around like animals on the prowl. demoniacs, or goonish thugs.

    They simply stood there and played their music..(and you could understand all the lyrics. After all...thats the whole point! duh!).. and they witnessed conversationally in between songs.

    And there are groups doing that today...THANK GOD...but there are way too many who are taking this freedom we have musically and using it as a liscence to sink to the lowest of the low levels that the worlds hellish musical groups sink to.

    May God help us to make the distinction between freedom of musical style and imitating hell itself.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  5. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    I guess you forget that Stryper, Petra, and Whitecross all dressed like the 80's hair bands of the time. Once again, somebody please tell me what a "goonish thug" dresses like, and how it is different from any other "urban" style of dress? Personally I have not seen any CCM artists, (female), who dress inappropriately, but as I said before I wouldn't really know. As for alternative musicians, as far as I can tell they wear jeans and T-shirts. Cultural differences, and apparently blinders, are coming into play here. Again, you may not receive a message from it, but that does not mean others can't. BTW, please give some examples of CCM artists that "imitate hell itself". Be specific. I want to know how they imitate hell also.
     
  6. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Oh, yeah, D28, how does a gang goon/thug lurch around? If you knew anything at all about rap you would know that hardcore rappers, indeed most rappers, in gerneral, do not do ANY choreography. They just stand there. They leave the "lurching" to the Hip Hop/R&B artists. Get it straight.
     
  7. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Filmproducer,

    No I wasnt. Thats when all of this mess started.

    Did you read my post at all? Here is what I posted...

    I was speaking of the "Jesus Music" of the late 60's and 70's. Phil Keaggy, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Dallas Holme, etc. The hippies who got born again and brought there music into the church. That was basically the beginning of the movement that we now know as CCM.

    They didnt have the attitude "gee, all the hippies are stoned when they play, so we will look stoned when we play. They lurch around like animals in heat on stage, so we will lurch around like animals in heat wghen we play. They play their music at volumes that render the words unrecognisable, so we will play at that volume.

    They brought their music into the church, but they were different now. They recognised that they now they needed to behave and present their music in such a way that befits "children of the Light" rather than "children of the darkness."

    It was bands like Stryper that caused alarm lights to go off. Those "warning lights" apparently werent heeded, because now we have this hidious and goonish rap stuff and "christianised" punk and grunge stuff out there.

    Unintelligable yelling and screaming, trying to look as sinister and goonish as possible, etc etc.

    I wasnt then and never have been a fan of Stryper, but at least...from what I remember...bands like Stryper sang in such a way as you could actually...horrors!!!...understand the words being sung!

    That...understanding the lyrics...is apparently no longer important for christian groups who are *supposedly* getting the message of Christ to kids through their music.

    Mike
     
  8. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Sorry D28 that was before my time. [​IMG] I am only 28, so Stryper was back in the day, for me. ;) I undestand what you are saying, although I don't agree with it. I think it is a cultural/age thing. I have no problem understanding the alternative/grunge/rap/Hip Hop/R&B stuff, but then again I grew up with it. I think you will find that there are many people, who also grew up with this stuff, and have no difficulties understanding it at all. People are really getting a message from it. That much is evident from what I have seen. "Night of Joy", at Disney, has produced some really great concerts, that were very fruitful, in that I have personally witnessed many getting saved or renewing their life for Christ. I have heard the same stories about other CCM concerts. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  9. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    I have every Petra Album ever produced. (I think...)

    If I don't have it on CD I have them on Vinyl...

    I also have a few Stryper Albums... Like their music... Didn't like the effeminate looks though... Band didn't survive...

    Whitecross I have never seen in concert..

    Petra I've seen a number of times in Concert...

    They *never* dressed like Kiss or Aerosmith...

    They did dress for the show...

    But, once they started there was *never* a question they were Born-Again believers.

    Especially when they were the headliners...

    Also, I have never had a problem understanding any of Petra; Strypers or the few Whitecross songs I've listened to...

    As for Petra niether Greg X. Voltz or John Schlitt ever screamed a song out. They sang them with extremely God Gifted Voices...

    As I said I have heard some good Christian Rap Lines...

    And, the Rapper I heard at Acquire the Fire gave the altar call *very* effectively...

    His words were not mumbled, they were clear as a bell... His useage of Rap Idiom was minimal.

    Grunge is another form I haven't reconciled...

    Though it makes a useful alarm clock sound... [​IMG]

    Mike Sr.
    Strangest Group I've liked? Ark Angel even with far too many Druid overtones in attire..
     
  10. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Spiritual Mad Man,

    I've never purchased any of those bands recordings.

    Probably because even when I was lost and smoking the reefer and doing the drugs I never had any interest in any of the bands of that style (I guess "Arena Rock" would be the term. Foreigner, Supertramp, etc.)

    I leaned towards bands like the Allman Brothers Band, Santana, Cream, Little Feat, etc. Groups that werent into "putting on a show", but rather "roots" based jamming.

    Consequently the christian groups I leaned towards are Phil Keaggy, Big Tent Revival, Iona, Larry Howard, Darrell Mansfield, Glenn Kaiser, etc. There used to be an awesome gospel bluegrass band called New Tradition that I liked a lot. As far as current groups, of course Iona is still making music, as is Phil Keaggy. I like Third Day(although their 1st album was way too "grungy". glad they snapped out of it)...they have a good sound and I can here all the vocals(although their lead guitar player desperatly needs to learn how to play some good extended guitar solos)...I really like Crystal Lewis. Some of Jars of Clays stuff since they dumped the rap that they started with. There is a group called Waterdeep that I am quite fond of. I like lots of the Vineyard "Winds of Worship" recordings. I love good rockin' black gospel choirs like the Mississippi Mass Choir.

    (I'm not black but maybe I have a lttle in my blood from a inter-racial marriage some time in the past!)

    Yep. Same with all the ones I mentioned.

    Praise God...I have no problem with that.

    I havent yet, but then I only make it through a few moments before I have to make it stop. Change the channel, turn the volume down, leave the room, etc.

    I'm certainly very glad to hear that.

    PRAISE THE LORD!!! \o/ :D

    It probably would! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Mike
     
  11. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    D28,

    I, too, have a lot of Phil Keaggy. When I was a DJ I got to play his first album. Love the tune "Time".

    Of course, "Love Broke Through" is a classic. And, the tune about Disappointment - Hisappoinment...

    I sang, "Let Us Climb This Hill Together" to my wife at our wedding some 23 years ago...

    I also like Third Day...

    When I first re-dedicated (navy at 17) it took two 'dumpings' to 'release' my Secular Music Addiction... (At least a foot locker each time!)

    Those included Allman Brothers, Santana, Grand Funk Railroad, Cream, etc.

    I was simply, addicted. Had to buy the latest even if it wasn't budgeted...

    Now, music is like coffee... A cup to get going that's all. [​IMG]

    Except for Praise and Worship which is now my staple...

    Don't get me wrong I still "blow out the cobwebs" from time to time...

    Mike Sr.

    PS I just noticed Glenn Kaiser in your list... I 'knew' him back in the Rez Band days...
     
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