1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

His Elect !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 2, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    dw

    Thats a lie, I clearly pointed out

     
  2. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    It is the final statement that you have no context for. The gentiles are NEVER called "the remnant" - NEVER, not once ANYWHERE in the scriptures.
     
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Greeting brother Walter,

    I see your point. let me take a good look at it and get back with you. It might be a few days, I have a ton of computer business I must get done.

    God bless you!
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    dw

    They do not have to be, all gentiles are not Elect, only a Remnant. In fact, they are called a residue, which means the same as remnant Acts 15:17

    17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

    The word residue is the greek word kataloipos and means:

    left remaining

    Now if we look up the word remnant in Rom 11:5 it is the greek word leimma
    , and it is made of the root leipō which means:

    to leave, leave behind, forsake, to be left behind

    The meanings are practically the same, the ideal of that which is left behind or remaining.



    In the OT Zech 8:6, the word is shĕ'eriyth and means:


    6Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.


    rest, residue, remainder, remnant

    a) rest, what is left

    b) remainder, descendants


    Acts 15:17

    "That the residue of men might seek after the Lord…
    The rebuilder and proprietor of this tabernacle, and who dwells in it; that is, attend his worship, pray unto him, and seek unto him for life and salvation: in Amos these are called, "the remnant of Edom": and design the remnant according to the election of grace among the Gentiles; the Jews generally call all other nations, and especially the Roman empire, Edom:

    and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called;
    for God is the God of the whole earth, of the Gentiles as well as of the Jews; and his Gospel was now spread among them, and many of them were converted and called Christians, and the children and people of God: the Jews " John Gill
     
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why didn't you quote the verse preceding? I will tell you why because he was talking about the JEWISH remnant not the Gentiles. Indeed, he places the word "and" between this residue and the Gentiles again distinguishing them.

    NO EVIDENCE HERE!


    Who is "THIS people" in context???? - JEWS

    14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.
    1 ¶ Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying,
    2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
    3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
    4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
    5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
    6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.
    7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;[/B]
    8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

    Note that "this people" were scattered among "THE NATIONS" or Gentiles and hence cannot be the Gentiles and they were again regathered from the nations.

    NO GENTILE REMNANT HERE. Indeed this text REPUDIATES your whole interpetation of Romans 11.



    Again, the words "the remnant" are NEVER used to describe Gentiles
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    The Children !

    We should know that Salvation is for a Specified group, by the term Children of Promise. This term cannot denote or be in line with a man freewill salvation, conditioned on man.

    The Children of Promise Rom 9:8

    That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    The Children of Promise is a seed. No one chooses by their freewill to be part of a seed.

    Gal 4:28

    Now we, brethren[Jew and Gentile Believers], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    The Children of promise are not Children of promise because they believe on Christ, or because they accepted Jesus Christ in their heart, or because they repented of their sins, in fact, they did not do anything to be Children of Promise. Did Isaac do anything to be a Child of Promise ? Now who are the Children of Promise ? Rom 9:8

    That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    The Children of Promise and the Children of God are the exact same Children. Now that means, they did not do anything to be the Children of God. They did not believe , they did not accept Christ as their Saviour, they did not repent of their sins, they did not do anything to become the Children of God, no more than they did to become the Children of Promise as Isaac .

    Its by Election!

    Salvation is for the Children, the Children of Promise ! Or the Children of the Covenant. Remember Peter said in Acts 3:25

    Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    Yes, The Children of the Promise and of the Covenant are the Same, and they are the Elect of God, Abraham's Children.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    Acts 17:30
    The times of this ignorance God winked at, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent.
    And those, who of their own volition do repent, are the elect.
     
  8. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    That is very true! However, they do not repent in order to be come the elect, because their election took place before they were ever born (Eph. 1:4). Neither was election conditioned upon forseen repentance as election is "to" salvation not because of salvation (2 Thes. 2:13; Rom. 9:11).
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    I look at it differently. In the OT called out a nation unto himself. That nation was the Jews. It was a corporate body. "Not all Israel is Israel," meaning that some of Israel did not believe. They had to enter by faith, just like we do. Yet God still called out that corporate body unto himself to be a light to the Gentile nations around them.

    God is still calling out a nation unto himself. It is a corporate body. It is royal nation, a holy priesthood, a peculiar people. But it is a nation. One must enter the nation by faith, even as the Jew entered by faith. Faith has always been the gateway into the nation or the corporate body. Election doesn't apply directly to the individual. God is calling out a nation unto himself.

    Secondly election never refers to the unbeliever, especially the unbeliever vs. the believer. It always refers to the purpose of the believer. Some examples:

    Elect to be to the praise of his glory.
    Chosen that you should go and bring forth fruit.
    Called unto good works which the Lord has ordained.
    Predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.

    All of these verses have to do with election, but all of them have to do with service and purpose. The purpose that the believer has while serving the Lord on the earth--that is what election is all about.
     
  10. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    The principles of election are identical with the nation of Israel as they are with individuals.

    For example:

    1. The Election of Israel was not CONDITIONED upon anything found in them that appealed to God above other nations:

    Deut. 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
    7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


    Duet. 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.....6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.



    2. Election of the Nation of Israel was conditioned solely upon a covenant before they existed:

    Deut. 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.


    Deut. 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    Election of Israel as a nation was UNCONDITIONAL in regard to anything about them but solely because of God's covenant BEFORE they were ever born.

    (P.S. I have to leave the computer for about an hour, I take my wife for a walk every night about this time. I leave this unfinished but will resume where I left off. I have merely demonstrated that election of Israel as a nation is unconditional and the next aspect was to show the same language in regard to personal election.)

    What I have said above about the ethnic nation of Israel cannot be denied as this is the very application that non-unconditional electionist apply to the following verse:

    Rom. 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)


    They do not interpret Jacob and Esau as individuals but rather representatives of the nation of Israel and the nation of the Edomites. However, election is true of both individuals and nations. Election is "of grace" and therefore unmerited, meaning undeserved, not conditioned upon what a nation or person does or does not do.

    Now, I would like to turn to the other aspect of your post where you deal with the elect "nation."
     
    #50 Dr. Walter, Oct 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2011
  11. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    Romans 9:1-23 does not deal with gentiles in regard to the covenant of promise. Gentiles do not enter the picture until verse 24 in regard to salvation (Pharoah is introduced to illustrate the lost, not the saved.).

    Paul is dealing strictly with the promise to Abraham concerning "my kinsmen according to the flesh" and whether the rejection of the greater part of Israel as a nation has demonstrated God has broken his promise to Abrahm concerning Israel as an ethnic nation.

    In short, his answer is "God forbid" and in long, the fulfillment of that promise is yet future at the second the second coming of Christ (Rom. 11:25-29). In the mean time between Abraham and the Second Coming in every generation God has and will continue to save only a "remnant" of Israel of which Paul is part of that present remnant according to the election of Grace (Rom. 11:5).

    Now let us deal with the phrase "not all Israel is of Israel." In neither case is the term "Israel" inclusive of gentiles. Paul is speaking of ethnic jews or "my kinsmen according to the flesh" in both uses.

    The distinction that Paul makes is that what constitutes Israel at any given time, between the time the promise was given to Abraham until the Second Advent, whether it is now or in any generation (e.g. Elijah's - Rm. 11:2-3) in the past or in any generation in the future up until the second coming of Christ does not mean that this Israel consisting of once born jews represents the ethnic nation of Israel according to promise. Indeed, it does not, as only a "remnant" are saved in any given generation (Rom. 11:5) and never in any generation is the nation as a whole saved as promised until the second advent.

    In the mean time, this "remnant" consists only of twice born Jews and so will the yet future ethnic nation of Israel that will be saved at his return.

    I think I can demonstrate this interpretation is exegetically correct by many different passages (Zech. 12-13; Rom. 9:1-5; 11:1-29).

    Now, in my next post I want to turn our attention to the term "nation" as applied in 1 Pet. 2:5-11.
     
  12. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    They did not enter the corporate nation of Israel by faith but by birth, which circucmision is the type in the Old Testament.

    The illustration of promised "children" in Isaac also illustrates they did not enter by faith but by promise, power and supernatural birth.

    Isaac's faith played no effective part in his birth. The human will whether of his parents or of Isaac played no effective part in the primary cause of his birth. No human ability played any effective part in the birth of Isaac. Isaac was unconditionally elected to birth and privilege over Ishmael just as Jacob was unconditionally elected before his birth over Esau.

    No one entered ethnic Israel by faith but by physical birth or by the type of new birth - circumcision.





    Israel as a nation is never once called a "body" much less a "corporate body." It is called a "nation" and it was a LITERAL kingdom nation manifested as the professing kingdom of God consisting of true and false professors. To be precise it was a theocratic national kingdom composed of true and false professors. Moreover, it was represented by Jerusalem, and more specifically what was located in Jerusalem - the house of God. Here was the visible administration of the "keys of the kingdom" as the citizens of this theocratic national kingdom came to and submitted to the only ordained ministry at the visible house of God.

    This whole Old Testament theocratic national kingdom and its house of God has been temporarily rejected and set aside by God. There is a present correlating representation of this professing kingdom visibly represented in a house of God under the New Covenant as well. There is the kingdom of God consisting of true born again beleivers but manifested as the Professing kingdom God (tares and seed). This professing kingdom is visibly represented on earth by "the house of God" where in the administrative power of the keys of the kingdom are administered to the professing kingdom citizens that identify with the ordained ministry of the local visible congregations.

    1 Peter 2:5-9 beginning in verse 5 describes this correlating New Testament representation of the Old Testament house of God which is the local congregation or spiritual body of water baptized beleivers who are built upon into a spiritual temple assembled to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable unto God. The New Testament church is the ONLY visible, and the ONLY authorized representative of the present spiritual kingdom of God and therefore is a "holy nation" and a "peculiar people" by visible representation.
     
    #52 Dr. Walter, Oct 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2011
  13. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    Your argument is based upon PARTIAL evidence instead of the total Biblical evidence. Moreover, the logic is wrong.

    For example, if election is "to" salvation as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly demands, then the elect are previous lost persons and election is designed to bring them to faith in the gospel as the latter part of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 demands, as well as, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 also demands.

    Furthermore, if by "salvation" Paul means "salvation" in its most comphrensive meaning, then all the texts cited by you also demonstrate election is of lost persons that God predestinates ultimately to be conformed to the image of Christ in complete glorification (Rom. 8:29-30) of which Paul identfies as the "elect" (Rom. 8:32).

    Moreover, Ephesians 1:4 defines the application purpose of election is that they might be holy and blameless which means they previously were not! Redemption is then stated to be the beginning of that application point:

    Eph. 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    The purpose of election is summarized in verse 1 - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love". In verse 2 this elective design has been predetermined by God "in Christ" so that we shall be adopted as "children" of God "by" the Christ provision in verse 7 "redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" which makes us "accepted in the beloved."

    Saved people do not need to be made "accepted" by redemption and forgivenss but the elect do.

    Hence, when all your proof texts are placed in the proper overall context of election it does not prove your point but denies the point you are attempting to make. Election is "to" salvation in its most comprehensive meaning, including redemption. That being the case, then every aspect of salvation should be applied to the elect.
     
    #53 Dr. Walter, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2011
  14. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    2
    I reread this and see it is not clear but muddled. Let me just put it in this concise manner. All of Israel = all physical Israel does not constitute the promised Israel. That is, the Israel of promise is not composed of ONCE BORN Jews but TWICE BORN Jews.

    In addition, Israel as a whole (the nation in contrast to a "remnant") - has been temporarily set aside by God for the sake of the promised children among the gentiles. During this temporary rejection only a "remnant" of Israel is being saved according to the election of grace (Rom. 11:6). However, when the fullness of the gentile promised children be "come in" (Rom. 11:25) then the Israel (Israel as an ethnic nation) that has been set aside during this redemptive operation among the Gentile nations, will be grafted back into its own olive tree once "again" and "all Israel" = Israel as an ethnic nation - will be saved in keeping with the promise to the "fathers" according to election (Rom. 11:28).
     
    #54 Dr. Walter, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2011
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    The scripture makes it quite clear that God has a Elect People, A Special People whom He set His Love upon from Everlasting, and it is all those He Loved and Chose in His Son before the world was Jn 17:23-24

    23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    God Loved them [The Church] as He Loved His Son ! And as He Loved His Son before the foundation of the world, so Loved He all those Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world !

    Lets notice how that phrase "before the foundation of the world" is used here and in Eph 1:4


    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Now we see how and why The Chosen were Loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, because they were One with Christ then, He the Head, they His Seed. For it is written Heb 2:11

    11For both he that sanctifieth[Christ] and they who are sanctified [Those He offered Himself for]are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    Just Like Adam and Eve were of One ! Gen 5:2

    2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    So it should not be any misunderstanding who it is that is God's Special Chosen People Loved in Christ before the foundation of the world. These are not ethnic jews either, though some of them included, but its everyone, gentile or jew Chosen in Christ. Now was the book of Ephesians wrote only to ethnic jews ? No sir, but both jew and gentile believers in Christ ! Now these Chosen ones Eph 1:4 are God's Elect, a People He has Chosen to Salvation, and the Only People that God will Save, His Israel. It is these only that have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, because they were God's Elect or Chosen. Writing to them in 1 Pet 1:2,18-20

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    Peter tells them [The Elect] this in verses 18-20


    18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

    20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    Notice, but was Manifest in these times FOR YOU ! That is the Elect of vs 2, not everyone without exception..

    Now it should be noted that the Chosen in Eph 1:4 and the Elect in 1 Pet 1:2 are the same Persons, the same greek word is used in the greek ! The word in Eph 1:4 is:eklegomai and means:

    to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

    a) choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples

    b) choosing one for an office

    c) of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight

    In 1 Pet 1:2 it is the word eklektos:

    picked out, chosen

    a) chosen by God,

    1) to obtain salvation through Christ

    a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God

    This word is from the preceding one of Eph 1:4 The obvious connection is picked out, Chosen by God.

    This is just as the Israelites were Chosen or picked out separate from all other People of the Earth Deut 7:6-7

    6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

    As we can see, God's Love and God's choosing go hand and hand. God does not Love whom He did not Choose in Christ !

    A word about Deut 7:6-7, God was talking about His Elect in Christ here that He Loved and Chose, and not the whole Nation as a Whole, remember, many were called, but only few were Chosen ! The words of those verses therefore could not apply to all of that Nation without exception, because all without exception were not Chosen ! It was only a remnant according to the Election of Grace Rom 11:5

    5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    That would be those ethnic jews who were given Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began, along with elect gentiles 2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    1 Peter 1:1-3

    1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Pet 2:9


    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Many adversaries of the Truth try to tell us that 1 Peter is written to only ethnic jews, and so would have us to believe that where Peter calls them the Elect and a Holy Nation, that this is only to the ethnic jews. There is two reasons for this. #1 Because of the designation of an Holy Nation found in Exodus 19:6

    And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    And because Peter calls them strangers scattered in vs 1

    They believe it only pertains to jewish believers who were scattered from the persecution here Acts 8:1

    1And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

    Scripture here plainly informs us that it was the Church scattered. Yes it may have been comprised early on with believing ethnic jews, but nevertheless it was still the Church. What Church ? This One Matt 16:18

    18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    It was Christ's Church, His Body !

    This Church Acts 20:28

    28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


    It is the Church that was purchased with His own Blood ! Now, is this Church restricted to only ethnic jews ? If not, then neither is the Church in Acts 8:1

    So the question is asked again, was 1 Peter written only to ethnic jews ? No it was not, it was written to believers in Christ, His Church, where there is neither jew or gentile, but both are One in Christ Eph 2:14

    14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    This letter was written to believers, Christ Sheep, scattered throughout the Roman Province, Pontus, Galatia [as in Galatians where we know gentile believers existed] Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. This was a very ethnic diverse province, influenced by Grecio Roman Culture. That some of the recipients were probably gentiles is true because of 1 Pet 1:14

    14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

    The term former ignorance is a gentile perception Acts 17:30

    30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    Acts 14:15-16

    15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

    16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

    We are also aware that ethnic jews ,who before conversion, though very zealous in the jews religion, also were in Ignorance Rom 10:1-3

    1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

    2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

    3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

    So 1 Pet 1:14 can actually apply to either or, jews or gentiles, but the point is now, that they are Believers in Christ, together they make up an Holy Nation 1 Pet 2:9..
     
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    All Spiritual Blessings will be given the Elect !

    Eph 1:3-4

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    All of the Elect, the Chosen of God shall be given in time, all necessary spiritual blessings to save them experientially by Grace, By Grace through Faith. They will be given a New Birth, they will be Called, and shall be experientially saved because they are the Special Chosen of God, and through Christ death all has been secured for them, He is a Complete Saviour unto them ! For God hath raised up unto Israel [ Elect People] a Saviour ! Acts 13:23

    Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel[His Elect] a Saviour, Jesus:
     
  18. billwald

    billwald New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    2
    >What do you understand is meant by that phrase 'seed of Abraham'?

    Specifically . . . the people who love God and their neighbors. Both Moses and Jesus taught the same basics.
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    All of these Elect shall be preserved unto Eternal Glory, simply because they are God's very own Elect.. 1 Thess 5:23

    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Who is Paul writing to here but those Chosen of God 1 Thess 2:13

    13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    1 Thess 1:4

    Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

    BTW, this statement indicates for sure that Paul preached Election to them in His Gospel, how else would he refer them back to that subject ? " Knowing your election of God ? The word knowing here is the greek word eido and means:

    to see
    to perceive with the eyes
    to perceive by any of the senses
    to perceive, notice, discern, discover
    to see

    They had discovered their Election of God, they perceived it. The word also is in the perfect tense in the greek, it was perceived in the past, a completed perception, once and for all, resulting into present perception, they will always know it !

    They know it to be an act of the Father, He having Chosen them in Christ before the foundation of the world, this was Gospel Truth !

    This also was can be understood as the Knowledge of the Apostle had of them being of God's Election by the way they received the word of God. They had received it as the Word of God and not of men.. 1 Thess 2:13

    For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

    This is the same way the Elect Disciples received the word of God from Christ ! Jn 17:8

    For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    Thats an evidence of Election when one receives the words of God, His Gospel..
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    The Election of Grace !



    Rom 11:5

    Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    First of all, the Election of Grace is not jewish people. Yes it includes some of them, as the context where this verse is found implies, but the Election of Grace simply means and applies to everyone who is saved by the Grace of God ! For Salvation is by Election of Grace, not of works, lest any man should boast. The Election of Grace merely are all those that the Father hath Chosen in His Dear Son before the foundation of the world, for the Praise of His Grace Eph 1:4-6


    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    Now what does God do for these The Election of Grace, who by nature as other men, are children of wrath Eph 2:3 but are not of the Election of Grace ? Note: Though all men without exception are sinners by nature, not all men without exception are of the Election of Grace !

    Now God by Grace, and for the Glory and Praise of His Grace, He imputes their sins to Christ, and imputes Christ Righteousness to them, so they are Justified by His Grace Titus 3:7

    7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    " justification is an act of God's gracious will conceived in his mind from eternity, by which he wills not to impute sin to his people, but to Christ their surety; and that they should be accounted righteous through the righteousness of his Son;" John Gill

    Its through the Work of the Holy Spirit and the Preaching of the Gospel of God's Electing Grace Acts 20:24, when the Lord reveals this Truth to the redeemed sinners heart; and so Paul says that through the Gospel a Righteousness of God is revealed 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 1:16-17 Now who is it revealed to ? To those who are believing Rom 1:16. This Righteousness is being revealed to them having God given Faith, so its from Faith to Faith. The fact that this Righteousness is being made known, makes it clear that the Righteousness existed for that one believing before it was revealed or made known to them, and this shall be True of the Entire Election of Grace,Jew or Gentile !
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...