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history lesson

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by jilphn1022, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    //"Falling away in the Arms of Jesus"//

    I meant 'Falling away into the Arms of Jesus'.
    If we 'fall away' from earth at the rapture1/resurrection1
    the how would one describe it. Is Jesus going to
    catch us or not?

    I guess the real question is NOT answered in
    the Bible: When Jesus comes to get us 'in Jesus'
    will His head be closer than His feet to the earth
    or will His feet be closer than His head?
    I don't know why this needs to be 'proved'
    to someone who can't even come up with a dozen
    good reasons why God is limited to one and only one
    resurrection1 (followed closely by one and only one
    rapture1 of all the dead people) at the Resurrection2.

    Recall my definitions:
    (feel free to make up your own definitions).

    Rapture1 - 1 Cor 15 new body for alive people
    Resurrection1 - 1 Cor 15 new body for dead people
    Rapture2 - a Pretribulation eventby Jesus of
    --- resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
    Resurrection2 - A Post-tribulation event by Jesus of
    --- resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
    Resurrection3 - a resurrection of dead lost people
    --- for assignment to everlasting punishment
    --- (this resurrection3 is also called the SECOND DEATH)
    Resurrection4 - The Rapture2 by Jesus + the
    --- Resurrection2 by Jesus, book-ending the
    --- Tribulation of the Evil Period.

    At the Pretribulation Rapture2 there could be
    as many as 400 Million living Saved People to
    rapture1. Unless the Bible & John lied about the
    meanness of the 'Beast from the Sea' & Peter
    lied about the 'Antichrist' & Paul lied about
    the 'man of Sin' -- then there could hardly be more than
    maybe 10K folks that got overlooked by
    the Killing Machine*. People locked in
    fall out shelaters, abandoned in deep mines,
    never pulled back from space, etc.

    * the term 'Killing Machine' is NOT found in
    the Bible - but it sure talks like that is what
    the Beast from the Sea has.

    Rev 13:11-15 And I beheld another beast comming vp out of the earth, and hee had two hornes like a lambe, and hee spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev 13:13 And hee doeth great wonders, so that hee maketh fire come downe from heauen on the earth in the sight of men,
    Rev 13:14 And deceiueth them that dwel on the earth, by the meanes of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an Image to the beast which had the wound by a sword, and did liue.
    Rev 13:15 And he had power to giue life vnto the Image of the beast, that the Image of the beast should both speake, and cause that as many as would not worship the Image of the beast, should be killed.

    The SDA official texts tell me that the two
    horned beast from the earth that speaks
    as a dragon is A BUFFALO (or was it one of the
    offshoot sects that split off the SDA?) - In other
    Word: the USofA. We can't live without the USofA
    being the major player in the end times.

    I've heard some who say:
    the USofA will die in one day (with sub-Sarahan
    Africa) in a Chicom/Russian lead nuclear war
    - the rapture2 disguised by the nuclear war.
    This would also kill 1/3 of all human life, destroy
    1/3 the grass, etc. The 88 Reasons Why the Rapture
    will be in 1988
    says on 23-25 Sept 1988
    the Nuclear War will happen - you can't tell only which
    day or hour - else Edgar C. Wisenant would have given
    us better than a three day spread ;)
    I wish he wouldn't have picked the day I was
    45-years-old :( (actually I didn't have a slack in my
    reading load until the summer of 1989) I think
    'no man knows the day or hour' means nobody knows
    the hour, day, week, fortnight, month,
    year, decade, century, etc. that the rapture2 will
    occur (of course this is before it happens, afterwards
    the 3.3% of people left on earth will know the date
    and everybody in heaven!!!

    (recall throughout the Great Tribulation Period
    [the unadultrated Wrath of God] the Jewish
    Israeli people are protected by God in the wilderness
    from the meanness of antichrist.)
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No question.

    I have always said that you score high marks on describing what you want the case to have been in scripture -

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    An easy example of that "falling" as Paul uses the term (exegesis being practiced here) is Gal 5 "you have Fallen from Grace" which can not be wrenched into "you have fallen from Grace into the Arms of Christ". In 2Thess 2 "our gathering together to Him" is the terminology Paul uses for the Rapture and NOT "falling away and the man of sin revealed".



    As I said - you get high marks for always stating your own POV and what you had hoped to find to be true in the text.






    As I said - you get high marks for always stating your own POV and what you had hoped to find to be true in the text.

    There is no discussion at all in scripture along the lines of "saints will one day fall away from the earth - but just in time Jesus will catch them". No "you fell but I caught you" discussion on saints leaving earth.

    Don't get me wrong - I fully believe that 1Thess 4 certainly describes the saints being raptured from earth up to meet the Lord in the air and then taken to heaven.

    But it is NOT described as "you fell but no worry - I caught you" rather it is "our gathering together to Him" 2Thess 2.

    No - the "real question" that is still waiting to be answered is why you insist that some Bible text says we "Fall away into the arms of Jesus".

    And the second question on the heels of that one - is how in the world you ever got to the point of trying to get that ideah from 2Thess2 when as we see in the text -- it says nothing of the kind!

    And of course the 3rd point - getting us back on track is that 2thess 2 DOES say that "our gethering together to him DOES NOT COME until the apostacy comes first" --

    I.E no PTR.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #183 BobRyan, Dec 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2007
  4. jilphn1022

    jilphn1022 New Member

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    I have been reading this thread

    and I think that Bob Ryan and Ed Edwards are keeping this history lesson lively!

    You are both so nice to each other too!
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    It is hard to be mean to a person when you pray a prayer
    like this for them each & every day.

    May all God's best blessings be showered upon
    Brother BobRyan, his family, and his ministry.
    May this be done so that we might give all the
    more honor and glory unto our blessed Lord
    and graceful Savior: Messiah Yeshua. Amen!
     
  6. jilphn1022

    jilphn1022 New Member

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    This is so sweet!


    I am sure that BobRyan would have the same prayer for you!
    And I would say the same prayer for you and your family too!
    You are very special grandparent to be raising two of your grand
    children! May they be a blessing to you. I am sure they appreciate
    all you do for them and your love for them too.
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    God's blessings to you Ed and to your family as we approach the Christmas season and remembrance of the birth of Christ.

    I appreciate the opportunity that you provide to compare the PTR view with the Post-Trib-Rapture view and the fact that you understand clearly that Christians who accept and respect each other can still have a difference in doctrinal positions.

    I have been on the road for the past week or so -- and have had very little time to relax in lively debate -- but my time is freeing up and so -- I will likely be hanging around here on a more regular basis once again.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
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