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Holy Spirit in Greek and Hebrew

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Jesus is Lord, Feb 4, 2004.

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  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord New Member

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    I heard about people who refer to the Spirit of God as a she (by whatever reason :rolleyes: ). But my question is whether the "Holy Spirit" or the "Spirit of God" is a neutrum or masculinum or femininum in the Hebrew and Greek.

    Thank you for your time.
     
    #1 Jesus is Lord, Feb 4, 2004
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Spirit "Ruach" in Hebrew which is feminine.

    Spirit "pneuma" in Greek which is neutral.

    However, Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as "He".

    John 16:13
    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    HankD
     
    #2 HankD, Feb 4, 2004
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Hank - be careful not to put English translation pronouns as a basis for your thinking. In the verses you quoted, "he" is an understood subject of the verb and is NOT spelled out.

    Short Greek lesson from the inspired Word - would say

    Root word is akou with an added ending of o = I am hearing (first person singular)
    Same root with eis ending = You are hearing (second person singular)
    Same with ei ending = He, She or It -depending on the context - is hearing (third person singular)
    Same with omen ending = We are hearing
    Same with ete ending = You (plural ye) are hearing
    Same with ousi ending = They are hearing

    So with every verb in John 16, the subject "he" is added by the AV translators to be consistent with their interpretation of the Spirit being more than an "it".
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, Feb 4, 2004
  4. LRL71

    LRL71 New Member

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    Sort of like my lu-o chart..... fond memories of beginner's Greek.

    Present Active Indicative:

    1st Person Singular: lu-o
    2nd Person Singular: lu-eis
    3rd Person Singular: lu-ei

    1st Person Plural: lu-omen
    2nd Person Plural: lu-ete
    3rd Person Plural: lu-ousi

    Holey Cow, man, I remembered that! :D

    Good point, Dr. Grif! 3rd person in the Greek does not define which gender in the verb form only. Context helps, though.
     
    #4 LRL71, Feb 4, 2004
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Oh My! LOL [​IMG]

    Or should that be omai, e, etai, ometha, esthe, ontai?

    Remember what THAT was?
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Feb 4, 2004
  6. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord New Member

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    So the Spirit of God is theologically spoken not a "He" :confused:
     
    #6 Jesus is Lord, Feb 4, 2004
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Sorry, got carried away in a thought and never finish.

    John 16:14 starts with "ekeinos". This is a demonstrative pronoun and can be translated he, she, or it depending on the gender.

    Unlike the simple verbs that "understand" a pronoun (like akou-ei above), this pronoun HAS A GENDER.

    Here in John 16:14, clearly talking about the Holy Spirit, it is MASCULINE! The Holy Spirit is neuter in word, but the pronouns are masculine. Hence "HE" is correct and clarifies the others.

    Greek lesson #2
    ekeinos = masculine
    ekeine = feminine
    ekeino = neuter

    Here the MASCULINE is used. Sorry for any confusion. When speaking of God the holy Spirit we should always, like the bible, refer to Him as HE.
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Feb 4, 2004
  8. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Present Indicative Passive, right?
     
    #8 ScottEmerson, Feb 4, 2004
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Amazing at how the Greek lessons come back at you. I wondered how important they'd be, since we had a good English translation (ASV1901) used in college and seminary.

    But the more questions I see in the Theology and Versions threads, the more important a classical education in Biblical languages looms.

    How many false doctrines are built on inadequate understanding of an ENGLISH translation of God's Word? I battle Mormons 2-3 times a week out here in LDS-land. They have huge doctrinal beliefs based on really poor understanding of the KJV text!

    Remember, Mormons are KJVO #4 on our chart!
     
    #9 Dr. Bob, Feb 4, 2004
  10. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    My favorite was the singular first declension of feminine nouns (or the -a declensions):

    a, as, a, ain, ai, on, ais, is

    Ai-O-Nais-Is just sounded like a Greek God so that that made it really easy for me to remember@
     
    #10 ScottEmerson, Feb 4, 2004
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Hey, Greek students, I was recently in a *HUGE* "discussion" with some Universalists who insist that the Greek 'aionios aionios' means, "ages of ages" which will end sometime. This is the rendering in the YLT. I asked several Greek acquaintances about this & they told me that the rendering "forever and ever" was also correct, especially in the Bibles that say this, as once Satan is cast into gehenna, he's mentioned no more. However,these gents are NOT students of Greek; it's their native lingo that they seldom use now. Can someone please clarify?

    (Not for one nanosecond do I believe Gehenna is anything less than eternal. And I wouldn't wanna be there for one minute!)

    Is the KOINE Greek that much more different from the Textus Receptus?
     
    #11 robycop3, Feb 4, 2004
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The TR and all Greek copies of the NT are in "koine" (common) Greek. This is distinguished from Classical Greek (500-100 BC) or Modern Greek (1500-today).

    The phrase "age" or "ages of ages" is an indefinite period of time and understood in Koine as "eternity".

    And used commonly in NT it is progressively stronger:
    eis ton aiona = for ever
    eis tous aionas = for ever-more
    eis tous aionas ton aionon = for ever and ever
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Feb 5, 2004
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you. This roughly corresponds with what my Greek acquaintances have told me. BTW, they are of the Greek Orthodox denom.


    If I discuss universalism further, it won't be in this forum. I only mentioned it here because of the various translations of the Greek 'aion' & its derivatives in the various English BVs
     
    #13 robycop3, Feb 5, 2004
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