Homosexuals are born gay

Upon what scientific basis do you say this? </font>[/QUOTE]All scientific data up to this point points in the same direction.
Besides that, science is inaccurate at this point. The Word of God is what determines the final conclusion. Homosexuality according to Romans 1 is a chosen lifestyle. It is a sin that is chosen just as fornication, adultery, bestiality, or any other form of illicit sex. It is chosen, not forced. There is no scentific evidence for it at all. On what scientific evidence? The lack of scientific evidence. There isn't any.
DHK

 

Upon what scientific basis do you say this? </font>[/QUOTE]You are asking DHK to prove a negative.

The burden is on those who claim there is a genetic predestination to homosexuality... thus making it "natural". This can't be a 65% thing either. It has to be a universal, invariable marker... but such a marker has not been found and more than likely will not be.

 

I think we're splitting hairs. I've not seen anyone argue that any person is less than 100% responsible for their homosexual actions.

I remember hearing an old-timer in my hometown tell a girl that she needed to wear more modest apparel. But he added this disclaimer: "But sister, my weakness is liquor."

I've never been tempted to become drunk (and haven't been so but a couple of times in my teen years). It is a sin that doesn't tempt me much. But I can be very cutting and acidic with my words. I fight that one all the time (and have for as long as I can remember).

I think many here are saying, "for some, homosexual behavior is something that they deal with for much of their life." It's wrong. Always has been. But it's the sin they struggle with, and might have struggled with, all along.

Gay gene? No...that would mean we are victims. "Born gay?" Like I said, gay is defined in an act, not an orientation. But struggling with a particular sin more than others? I see that happening.

Just my $0.0005 (after taxes)...

 

God will not place the disire to commit an abominable act in the hearts of people.

 

No, I'm asking DHK to provide some evidence for his statement that the idea that homosexuality may have a genetic component is garbage and absolutely false. In order to have the confidence to claim this in such strong language he ought to have some evidence.

Why not? Most traits are not controlled by a single master gene, but are controlled by the interactions of many genes and their modification by the environment. There is no reason this should be any different.

In actuality the evidence is mixed--it appears that homosexuality has both a genetic and an environmental component, and that a good deal of the determination of a person's likely sexual orientation occurs before birth.

 

God did not do it, SFIC...our sinful nature is just that...OURS.

I think you are misunderstanding us, thinking we are in disagreement when we are largely in agreement...

But...aren't ALL sins "abominable acts?" I'm grossed out by homosexuality...but I have a feeling that God is grossed out by all sin.

 

There we go again, relying on Paul as the final word on a very complex issue. Boy, I think some of you should call yourselves Paulists and not Christians at all.

Things have changed since Leviticus. The biological imperative that led the Jews to oppose the eating of pork and shellfish no longer exists. In a world of overpopulation, biological imperatives that become sin, change.

We have chased homosexuals to the ends of the Earth, chastizing them for their pormiscuity. Now, that they want to get married and commit to loving relationships and join the communities of the "otherwise" good people, I hear condemnation. The attack on homosexualityas a sin far outweighs any other one may ever hear from the Christian world. What is it that places so much emphasis on this? Certainly not the word of Christ.

He taught tolerance and forgiveness. None of you know what causes homosexuality anymore than heterosexuality, yet you speak aboutit as if you are scholars of science and religion, all knowing.

Lay off them. If any of you is without sin (sexual or otherwise) please go right ahead with your judgements and attacks of these poor, hated people.

I think Shakespeare was right on this subject; "Thou doth protest too much." Suggesting you may be overcompensating for your own feelings of this sort. Well, so what if you are GAY.

I eat pork and shellfish; Leviticus says you should kill me. Who wants my address?

 

No, I'm asking DHK to provide some evidence for his statement that the idea that homosexuality may have a genetic component is garbage and absolutely false. In order to have the confidence to claim this in such strong language he ought to have some evidence.
</font>[/QUOTE]1. As Scott pointed out what you are demanding is the impossible and is a logical fallacy. You cannot demand something that is not there. The onus is on your side if you believe there is evidence. It is up to the scientific community to provide evidence that there is a genetic disposition to homosexuality. They have not been able to do so. There is no such evidence. I don't have to prove the lack of evidence. That is the same as asking the atheist to prove his position of "there is no God." He can't. You can't prove a universal negative. It is the responsibility of the scientific community to come up with the evidence not my responsibily to come up with "the lack of evidence." Use come sense here.

Use the Bible also.
The Bible says that all sexual immorality, homosexuality notwithstanding, is a choice one makes, and that my friend is sin.
DHK

 

100%, RED LETTER, BORN AGAIN, LIVING IN FAITH (NOT KNOWLEDGE), FREEWILL, FORGIVING, TOLERANT, IMMERSED/BAPTISED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTIST...
and have no problems separating dogma from the teachings of Christ... and leading the unsaved to him as a result.

I never have to defend Christ against all the bigotry I hear in many of our church. I just tell those to whom I witness, that there are those in the church who have great sickness as well. That's why we are no different than the sinners except that we are saved.

It is a program of Principles not Personalities! I learned that in AA at the end of my drinking days, 13 years ago. Maybe we Baptists should think about that one.

 

You amaze me SB. I've just put a half-dozen posts up that state "Homosexuality is a sin...and God hates sin." I didn't "rate" it higher than others.

Jesus taught forgiveness (not "tolerance," that's a word you've inserted. If you knew the "red letters" like you claim, you'd understand. But hey, since the Holy Spirit tells you what you need to know anyway, who needs those "red letters?")

And get off your high horse regarding what I know. Don't patronize me with a "you act like you're a scholar." I've forgotten more about molecular biology, physical chemistry, and genetics than you'll ever know. I have twelve years of post-grad education and three majors. I could easily step in to a high-school setting and teach biology, chemistry, or physics. In the collegiate arena--I could teach philosophy or chemistry. And we're not even to my theological training yet...so, in the words of the great Ferris Bueller...SaWING and a miss....

You think you've come up with a novel idea, but it's really very old: You equate sincerity with normalcy. If a homosexual really, REALLY believes he is good and wholesome, then he is. Wow...did you come up with that all by yourself? So what if a pedophile feels that way? A rapist? An embezzler? A bigot? Hey, as long as we're sincere about it...

If you had bothered to carefully read threads, you would have seen that I absolutely flamed a "god hates fags" type of poster on this thread just yesterday. Dude, I don't hate anyone. I have three students in my ministry here dealing with gay issues. And I'm loving them, helping them, and showing them through Christ a better way. Don't you dare pontificate in my direction about "hatred." That's an insult.

Unfortunately, your inability to construct rational arguments has become evident. You've fallen back on the tired old banter of "anyone who espouses an absolute standard of right and wrong is 'spouting hate.'" That's tired, man. Put it to bed.

Finally...if you're a teacher, I have two thoughts: First, work on your grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. Second, please stay on topic when you teach. I'd hate to think what kind of deprogramming must be done if you give them some of your rhetoric.

 

Amen rbell.

 

It is not what you say, but the subjects you choose to harp on the most that are most telling. Why is their not a thread on the nature of murder or any of the other Top Ten?

It is because there is a sick fascination with this subject that your mouths foam on this subject. Examine yourselves as you examine others, and you will see your list of sins is "like that of a blood-filled rag". None holier than another. Get on your knees in your closet and pray. But instead you ust run homosexuals back into their closets, fearing for their lives. And who do they fear, other sinners, no, they fear the wrath of "Loving Christians."

I am here to say to all, come to the loving arms of Jesus.

 

rbell, it's hard to love you, man. I am talking with my fingers. This is first draft, unedited, though inspired. For your information, I do teach, in fact, 10 years a professional writer in LA, and advanced degrees from top ten universities, currently teaching Critical Thinking, Text- Hurley, Logic, Thompson/Wadsworth Publishers. Would you like some analysis of your fallacies? Not here, but take my class, maybe you'll learn something.

Now, enough of my response to ad hominem attacks.

Back to those making pseudo-scientific arguments to support their bigotry (without sufficient evidence)

 

It is actually possible to determine within a high degree of certainty that a trait is not genetically determined. Twin studies provide a powerful tool to examine a behavioral or psychological trait such as homosexuality. If in repeated twin studies it is found that the brother or sister of a homosexual twin is no more likely than a member of the general population to be homosexual, it can be concluded that the genetic contribution to this trait is negligible.

As a matter of fact twin studies have indicated that there is a genetic component to homosexuality.

Now even assuming that there was no evidence for a genetic link, you are overstating your position. In that case there would be no evidence either for or against the idea. Yet you were somehow able to say that it is a ridiculous idea and absolutely wrong! You're telling me to use some sense?

You are overstating your opinion because it is not based upon actual evidence but upon your subjective idea of what God might or might not allow regarding genetic influences on behavior. You are having an emotional reaction because you are linking acknowledgment of a genetic predisposition towards same-sex attraction to a validation of homosexual intercourse. As I said in my first post (and as is the premise of the OP), this is leaping to an unwarranted conclusion.

 

You should come to the top secret Science forum. There's some interesting stuff there.