House Speaker Invokes God and Bible in Earth Day Declaration

God is going to redeem his broken creation, not destroy it. God said the creation was very good - he is not going to thow it away. As Romans 8 clearly tells us, the created world is groaning for its future redemption.

When Jesus entered history 2000 years ago, He did much more than simply "give us a way to be saved and go to heaven when we die". He initiated new creation - a reversal of the curse - a beginning the project of reclaiming not only human souls but the entire cosmos.

This project is underway, it has begun. God cares deeply about His earth and is even now, subtly perhaps, beginning the process of healing it. And, of course, there will be a climactic and dramatic healing and renewal of it in the future.

But the project of the renewal of creation is already underway.

If we do not "join hands with the evolutionists to work to save the planet", then we will be doing precisely this: we will be working against what God is doing even now.

 

I completely reject that. You cannot back that up with scripture. God wants us spreading HIS gospel, there is NOTHING in the bible telling us to preach anything else. Jesus did not come to create new planets. He told us this world will pass away.

You join hands with the heathens. I guarantee God will frustrate your efforts to save humanity, aside from Christ.

 

From Isaiah 55;

so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands. 13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the pine tree,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the LORD's renown,
for an everlasting sign,
which will not be destroyed."

This material is about the renewal of our earth that will occur in the future when God completes his reclamation of His created order. In verse 13, the "reversal of the curse is emphasized - the weeds will be replaced with "good" plants.

What do you think this text is about, given your position that our world will be destroyed? It would be very awkward indeed to argue that this describes an entirely new world - one that replaces ours - since the writer says "instead of the thornbush will grow the pine tree, and instead of....."

Then you have Jesus at odds with Paul. In this text from Romans 8, Paul clearly states that creation will be reclaimed and redeemed, not destroyed.

The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God

 

Do any of you readers think it is a co-incidence that Jesus is first mistaken for the gardener after his resurrection? I do not think it is.

In a sense, He is the gardener, raised to life to begin the reclamation of the entire created order. Jesus is not just redeeming human beings and preparing to trash the "very good" world He created. I believe that the Scriptures teach that all of creation will be redeemed.

And I think a case can be made that this project is already underway. So why would we not work with God?

 

Because God has nothing to do with the modern enviromental movement, no matter the tap-dance you can do thru scripture. Jesus came to save man, and he made the salvation plan simple.

And don't you think he could renew the earth without a global pollution tax, that will only go to corrupt U.N. officials ? And do you really think God wants us working with atheists, at all ? Seems like that is more at odd with plain scripture.

 

Not only for making ethanol... but the up and coming thing in home heating is...
corn burning stoves. (Like a wood stove but it uses dried corn. ) Imagine the impact on the food supply caused by these things (which are cheaper than a wood stove and the corn is cheaper than wood pellets) when home heating fuel keeps going up, and people start looking for alternative energy sources.

 

Paul wrote what he wrote - the world will be restored and transformed. If what I am doing is a "tap dance", then please tell us precisely what you think was in Paul's mind when he wrote these very words:

the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God

Incorrect. God is doing much more than this - He is redeeming and restoring all of creation - which will be our eternal home. I will fill out the argument against the "God came to save man and not creation" view later, if time allows it.

 

luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luk 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Luk 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Luk 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
Luk 16:5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
Luk 16:6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
Luk 16:7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations

 

That verse doesn't say to work with them, Far from it.

Eph 5;6-11

[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[7] Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
[8] For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
[9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
[10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
[11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

 

I'll ask you two the same question Ken wouldn't answer.

Is God pleased with the riots & pollution that have resulted from the ethanol dabaucle ? We we only trying to help, right ? Did God frustrate our efforts ? Or do you think he is in charge ?

 

I will answer your question and ask that you answer I question that I asked you, and which you have not yet answered:

Here is my question to you:

Now to your question. God is not pleased with riots. Sometimes God does act in history in a way that seems evil. While God is sovereign over all events in the universe, this does not necessarily mean that he "fore-ordains" all events. So I do not know whether God has "frustrated our efforts", but it is possible that He has. As I said, God sometimes does things which we will understand as evil. But, of course, they are not evil in reality.

I look forward to your answer to my question about Romans 8.

 

You need to be careful of context. I will suppose you are speaking to 8:22 which has not context that speaks of any portion of creation that is not human. This is made clear in v.23 in the use of the word "they". "Creation" in v. 22 is speaking to all of man, gentiles and Jews alike.

Redemption is not a process and he did not die for anyone or anything other than man.

Rather colorful language but has no place in this discussion.

Again this passage is not about the earth adn redemtpion is not a process.

God does not need us to take part in a New Heaven and a New Earth, He doesn't need us to help save the planet. And redemption is not a process. What god did on the cross is complete and needs not our help.

 

In verse 19 Paul refers to the creation. And more importantly, he clearly sets creation in contrast to the "sons of God". So he must be talking about something other than just mankind when he uses the term "creation". Maybe you will argue that "creation" here in this verse refers to mankind in general and that mankind in general, and not the "rest" of the created order, is waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. Let's turn to the verses you have referred to:

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

The use of the phrase "not only so" shows that Paul cannot intend the word "creation" to refer to the "redeemed saints". No person (at least no competent person) would write something like this:

"We know that X has been groaning and not only so Y has been groaning"

and intend the reader to understand that Y is not distinct from X. So we know that "creation" cannot mean the redeemed saints. What else could it possibly mean if not the created order. Could it be the "rest" of mankind as you seem to suggest?

I doubt it. Why would those who are not redeemed (the rest of mankind as distinct from the redeemed) look forward in groaning to a redemption that they will not be part of?

 

I think that the Scriptures are against you on this. What do you think that Isaiah is writing about when he penned these words, if not a redeemed creation that extends beyond men:

the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the pine tree,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the LORD's renown,
for an everlasting sign,
which will not be destroyed."

And I do not think that your argument that redemption is not a process can survive the stories given in Scripture.

1. Romans 8 likens the state of creation "groaning" as if in childbirth. And childbirth is not a discrete event. There is a climactic event, to be sure, but there are 9 months of "process" before.

2. In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says these words "Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain." The context is Paul's sweeping and glorious vision of the world to come. Why would Paul conclude with the above statement if he did not believe that some of the things the saints do in the present will survive the coming transformation and actually be present in the world to come? If Paul believed that what we do today would not influence the world to come, he would not have written this. He clearly believes that we are presently participating, in a small way perhaps, in shaping the redeemed world of the future. So the redemption that Paul is talking about has a process dimension to it.

3. In 1 Cor 15, Paul uses the metaphor of the planted seed. Well, the flower that results, while different from the seed, bears something of the imprint of the seed. Paul is describing a situation where the world to come is indeed, to some degree anyway, connected to the present world.

There are many more points that could be made here. Not least among these is the point that Jesus is put to death on the sixth day, "rests" on the tomb on the seventh day (Sabbath) and on the first day of the new week rises again. Not to mention that he is mistaken for the gardener.

I suggest this is not co-incidence and we are meant to understand that God is beginning a new creative work on this first day of the new week, just like He did on the first day in the Genesis account. And as we know, God spent the first 5 days working on the creation (to the exclusion of man).

I expect that his new work in Christ will not ignore the cosmos He so lovingly created and declared to be "very good".

 

Allready answered it. God did not send his son to restore the planet. Or any other planet. I'm not going to engage that any further.

My conviction is we are not to join with the ungodly, we are to be seperate. My conviction is God will frustrate man's efforts to save themselves, just like he did at Babel.

I will say you seem to have redemption & sanctification confused. Redemption is a one-time act. Sanctification is a process.

 

He created day & night, and called it good. In Revelation he destroys his creation, time. He has also promised earth will pass away, again, his creation. He has wiped out people by the millions, in floods & fires, earthquakes, killed animals & plants, how can you say God won't damage what he created ?

 

You have not answered the question. My question was very specific. Here it is again:

Pease tell us precisely what you think was in Paul's mind when he wrote these very words:

the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God

What was does Paul intend us to understand when he wrote the wordsin bold. If your overall view is correct, you will be able to tell us how the stuff in bold can be reconciled with your view that God is not in the business of redeeming the physical around us.

 

Yes, God is in charge. Yes, I think most people had good intentions in promoting ethanol and got caught by unintended consequences. I do not know if God frustrated the ethanol effort. No, I do not think that God is pleased when people suffer from riots and pollution.

 

Please give any specific texts you can think of that support your contention that God will destroy His creation. We can treat them one by one.

I believe that I never said any such thing. I am saying that God will not destroy his creation and, by implication, replace it with something else.