Hovind video

[Chessic]

"Correct usage:
They're their own worse enemy there."

I believe you meant "worst." Please "read before you write."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I think its time we all stop the English, grammar, and spelling corrections. We all make those mistakes sometimes and it is petty to keep correcting each other.

 

[Chessic]

I'm game to stop. I believe we shouldn't all be held to the highest grammatical standard in informal and emotional writing (I certainly don't carefully proof my writing here). Clarity is the goal. That being said, I correct grammar for a living and I'd be happy to go nuts with it if others wish to.

 

[robycop3]

Those who holler about 'omitted' verses have offered no proof that some other version hasn't ADDED the material they claim is left out.

 

[Chessic]

Agreed. I'd even say the fact that the KJV translators were so adamant about including the Apocrypha and even arranged for laws barring its removal from KJV Bibles is evidence of their desire to throw in everything they had, well-supported or not.

 

[Ed Edwards]

"Correct usage:
They're their own worse enemy there."

I believe you meant "worst." Please "read before you write."

Thank you, I need all the help I can get.
I'm just an ol' sinner boy saved by the Grace
of God. I also used to be a Quality Assurance
person (a fancy name for 'proof reader') I can
see grammar errors a mile off - I have to be 'hands on' to
make errors

 

[EdSutton]

I think its time we all stop the English, grammar, and spelling corrections. We all make those mistakes sometimes and it is petty to keep correcting each other.

"Let's try 'I think it's time we all stop the English, grammatical, and spelling corrections?'
>
>
>
>
What?? Who?? Lil' ol' me???? Pett...???" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Signed, Language Cop

 

[DJ N'LyTe]

For one thing it is 500 verses - you keep ignoring that.

For another the copyright protection is for printed materials. If a pastor were to publish a written copy of his sermon and directly quoted, not referenced, more than 500 verses he would have to have permission.

He could quote the entire NIV from the pulpit orally if he wanted.


No one has attacked you personally. If one makes an unsubstantiated statement he should be called upon to back it up. Much like if I were to say.

"There is a major passage where either the KJV1611 leaves out words or the KJV1769 adds two words. Of course I should be willing to back it up. It is not an attack on me to ask for proof.

You posted a Hovind video like it was the be all and end all to the versions controversy. People pointed out his errors. That is not an attack on you.

I havent ignored the 500 if you look back I apologized for that mistake and corrected myself.
the copyright isnt just for written material.
and the argument about noone attacking me personally I disagree look back but anyways my pastor once told me when I had this disagreement with him when I said to someone something they took offensive but argued that I didnt he told me its not what you said its how they took it.

 

[rbell]

the copyright isnt just for written material.

Correct...it's not just for written...but it does not apply to unrecorded, orally delivered sermons:

ZONDERVAN FAIR USE POLICY [LINK]
​

· The NIV, TNIV, and NIrV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic, or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses or less without written permission, providing the verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible, nor do verses quoted account for 25 percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted, and the verses are not being quoted in a commentary or other Biblical reference work. This permission is contingent upon an appropriate copyright acknowledgment, see ‘written use’ section below.


· Anyone who wishes to use the translations in its entirety must submit a request in writing with a self-addressed stamped envelope to receive our application through the mail, or submit a request electronically by using our permission request form.

and the argument about noone attacking me personally I disagree look back but anyways my pastor once told me when I had this disagreement with him when I said to someone something they took offensive but argued that I didnt he told me its not what you said its how they took it.

I'm having trouble following your sentence here...but it sounds like your pastor said, "It's not what you said, it's how they took it."

Sometimes, it is what you say. We must take responsibility for what we say, and how we say it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I havent ignored the 500 if you look back I apologized for that mistake and corrected myself.
the copyright isnt just for written material.
and the argument about noone attacking me personally I disagree look back but anyways my pastor once told me when I had this disagreement with him when I said to someone something they took offensive but argued that I didnt he told me its not what you said its how they took it.

You keep saying you first said 200 words, for which you have apologised. You however keep saying 500 words - its 500 verses. That is quite a difference.

If you can point out a personal attack on you in a PM to me I will remove it. I just cant find anything I can see as an attack.

 

[johnjudge]

This is a very interesting thread franklinmonroe. and some strange responses from Ed Edwards about the KJ Bible & taxes.

A lot of "facts" are being tossed around, along with calling out people...nice Christian example folks! Anyhow, may I ask where everyone is getting their facts from? I would be interested in reading them...

As for grammar, it is the Internet not a class. Don't bother me at all....LOL!

 

[Ed Edwards]

I've been attending Bulletin Boards (bbs) since
late June 1984 -- 24&½-years.
Here is what I discovered:

The Prime Directive of Bulletin Boards (bbs):

Read Before
You Write

My cheap there-their-they're test flushes out
those spirits who eschew corrections.
(Like a hound dog flushes out a covey of quail.)

1 John 4:1 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Dearely beloued, beleeue not euery spirit,
but trie the spirits whether they are of God:
for many false prophets are gone
out into this worlde.

Yes, I do have the Spiritual Gift (for which God will NOT
repent) of Discernment.

Discernment -- an unnatural Gift of the Holy Spirit
whereby the Spirit witnesses to the person with
the gift if an action is:

1. Of the deamons
2. Of God
3. Merely human

My Gift works mainly on the Internet
(thought it also works also when I witness
to a person about Salvation) Praise the Lord,
but His Spiritual Gifts aren't given for interesting
TV progams but to Futher the Kingdoms of God.

 

[franklinmonroe]

... Anyhow, may I ask where everyone is getting their facts from? I would be interested in reading them...

John, do require any additional facts from me? Please specify and I will reply. Much of my Hovind rebuttal is just the straightening out of historical facts available in many encyclopedias. Hovind tended to mismatch various facts in this video in a misleading fashion.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

Could you show me that law please?

Gail Riplinger is primarily responsible for the "can't preach more than 200 words from your NIV" nonsense. It clearly states at the front of any NIV that up to 500 VERSES (not WORDS) may be quoted in print form before permission is sought to use more. Verse limitation has nothing whatsoever to do with verbally quoting any Bible translation. It's not "against the law." Riplinger says the same thing about the NASB, as well. To prove her error I wrote to the Lockman Foundation to clarify if it was words or verses and whether it was verbal quoting or quoting in publishing. Of course, it has to do with quoting in publishing form only and pertains to number of VERSES not WORDS.

I just can't stand misinformation and misrepresentation when I see it because it all too often lends itself to confusing people.

 

[PK]

In another topic, DJ N'LyTe suggested that watching this video would be enlightening --

The other translations are good translations of the wrong text. Their translated from the Alexandrians who were the latter day Jehovah's witness' they took the bible and changed it and added and subtracted as they seen fit to make it mean what they wanted. check out this video on different translations its only about 6 minutes but gives a quick history http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykbnIQocq0​

I'd like to examine this video information (below, and in some more posts to follow). Go ahead and watch it, and then come back.
______

Within the first minute of his video Mr. Hovind states --

"...Here's the story. New Testament books were written shortly after the time of Christ. They had to make copies. It takes about 10 months to write out a copy of the Bible; so they had to write out the copy of the Bible by hand... no <unknown word>, no printing press, Gutenburg hadn't been born yet. So, it took a long time to make a copy of the Bible. They make their copies; they had either both books or scrolls, both were in use all through scripture. And they make a copy, and they check it very carefully. If they find a mistake, they're gonna' burn it. So they were very careful to get it right. They had a checking system that was really pretty goof-proof..."​

Error #1: No one was making complete copies of the "Bible" (as we use the term) shortly after Christ as implied. It is true that most of the apostolic writings were completed within a few decades after Jesus' resurrection. However, the gospel stories initially circulated individually; later they might be bound together, but still separate from Pauline letters and the other general epistles. It doesn't take 10 months to copy Philemon or Jude. It was some time before all the Greek Christian books were put together in a single volume (NT), and these books still weren't combined with Hebrew scrolls (OT) until maybe the late 3rd or 4th century. These very first complete "Bibles" would likely have had the Jewish text represented by a Greek translation (Septuagint), not the Hebrew language which is the primary source of the KJV's OT text. Translation from Hebrew into Latin was done by Jerome anout 400AD.

Error #2: While "scrolls" were used throughout biblical times, "books" (as we use the term) were not. The codex (a "book") composed of multiple leafs, or sheets, with writing on both sides and bound together, emerged about the 1st century AD. So, the apostolic writings may have been found in codex form, but the Hebrew scriptures had only been recorded as scrolls since Moses's time. Perhaps Hovind simply misspoke.

Error #3: Kent Hovind seems to be confusing professional scriptorium practices with what likely occuried in the first couple of centuries among small Christian congregations. The originals (a letter from Paul, for example) may have been copied by any unskilled individual so-inclined to make a personal reading copy, or to send to another group. The realization of the need to make a copy may not have occured until the parent documents were badly worn or damaged. The early Christians had thought Christ would return soon, so there would have been no urgency to make copies. The Jews did have dedicated, highly-disiplined scribes within their religious structure, but early Christianity had no such provisions. The first two centuries were crucial (it is doubtful that even a few autographs remained beyond 100 years).

Why don't you call him. I'm sure he would love to set up a debate over this issue.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

Here's the problem with stuff like this.

I'm sure you truly believe the above sentence I quoted. I have no doubt that someone you respected told you that.

But they're either lying to you, or they were fooled, as you were.

The above sentence is a complete fabrication.

It's never OK to use a falsehood to prove a truth.

If we were able to track the aforementioned falsehood back to its source, the originator of that falsehood (who WOULD be a liar) would then not be trustworthy in other matters. If you lie about one thing.....

Keep in mind. I'm not accusing you of being a liar. You're just repeating bad information. But now you have better information. :thumbsup:

To all the above, I say a huge AMEN. Very well explained.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

Why don't you call him. I'm sure he would love to set up a debate over this issue.

Wait, isn't Hovind still in prison? Perhaps a bit of debating will help give him something to do while he passes the time.

Sorry to be coming onto this topic this late but that's what happens when you're kinda new here. I'm catching up on all the interesting posts.

 

[EdSutton]

Wait, isn't Hovind still in prison? Perhaps a bit of debating will help give him something to do while he passes the time.

While I find nothing about being in prison in any way amusing, this line has me splitting my sides, just because of the wording.

Ed

 

[Armchair Scholar]

While I find nothing about being in prison in any way amusing, this line has me splitting my sides, just because of the wording.

Ed

Well, might he not be rather bored in there when he is used to lecturing and even debating?

BTW, when is he due to get out? Does anyone know?

 

[Baptist4life]

Hey ededwards kin ewe straten thiz outte fur me? i cain't git thes gramur thang figgured outte! im sew gladde ur sech a nyce chrystan man hulpin us awl outte hure!


You're coming across a little arrogant there, Ed!:thumbs: