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How are things in Heaven reconciled to Christ by the cross?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Col 1:19
    For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
    Col 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
    Col 1:2
    And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
    Col 1:22
    In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

    What is this saying?
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I believe this is saying all is reconciled to God through Christ. To illustrate, consider the "new song" in Rev. 5
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    How is that reconciling?
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    How is it not?

    All things are reconciled to God through Christ. All things and all judgment - in Heaven and Earth - are given to Him.
     
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    That is not what reconcile means.

    apokatallassō
    1. to reconcile completely

    2. to reconcile back again

    3. bring back a former state of harmony
    How does the cross "bring back a former state of harmony" to things in Heaven.?

    How has the relationship been broken?
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I believe it means to reconcile completely. Consider Ephesians 6:12.

    "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
     
  7. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    reconcile means to restore a previous relationship, you reconcile with a old friend not a new friend

    you cant reconcile with someone you had not met before
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    What part of Creation do you think came into being apart from our Creator?
     
  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    All of Heaven existed before tbe physical creation.
    The angels even praised God at creation
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Great topic for a thread!! Thanks loDebar

    19 For [a]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [b]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [c]heaven.

    21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in [d]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [e]was made a [f]minister.

    Footnotes:
    1. Colossians 1:19 Or all the fullness was pleased to dwell
    2. Colossians 1:19 I.e. fullness of deity
    3. Colossians 1:20 Lit the heavens
    4. Colossians 1:23 Or in faith
    5. Colossians 1:23 Lit became
    6. Colossians 1:23 Or servant
    19) God chose to provide God incarnate to the world. In Him (Jesus the Christ) all the presence, power, agency, love and faithfulness of God dwelt.

    20) God uses Christ to reconcile "all things" (the world of fallen mankind) to Himself, one sinner at a time. Everyone transferred into Christ is reconciled. When a person is transferred into Christ the undergo the "washing of regeneration" and the "circumcision of Christ." Jesus laid down His life as a sacrifice for the sin of the world. When someone is put into Christ (His propitiatory shelter), they are made at peace with God, their sins forgiven and remembered no more forever. This capacity to reconcile individuals remains in full effect wherever the person may be located, however anyone in Hades will never be reconciled, as they face "eternal punishment."

    21) All of us start out as "made sinners" hostile to God, spiritually separated from God, but not incapacitated such that we cannot hear and respond to the milk of the gospel.

    22) "Now reconciled" indicates those being addressed have been transferred into Christ and are born anew believers, indwelt forever with the Holy Spirit. As new creations in Christ they have been made, (1) holy, (2) blameless for past, present and future sins, (3) righteous, and (4) perfect.

    23) "Continue in the faith" addresses proof or evidence of salvation because those actually do continue in the faith, whereas lip-service professors of faith fall away like the second and third soil of Matthew 13.
     
    #10 Van, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    A little more on the difficulty of "in heaven or in the heavens." Here is the link to the whole commentary:
    http://www.lostpinesbiblechurch.com...ns_The_Preeminence_of_Christ.pdf?version=1694

     
    #11 Van, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    There are two issues here:
    (1) You are capitalizing "Heaven" when the translated scripture actually reads, "heaven." Heaven is a popular concept denoting a place of reward and the final destination of humankind. I do not think that's what Paul is writing about here.
    (2) I think a big part of the confusion here is that the word translated "heaven" in Colossians 1:20 is actually poorly translated. The word in the Greek is plural, not singular, but most English translations will translate the plural "heavens" as "heaven" for theological, not grammatical reasons. It is a bit of translator bias that undermines a clear understanding of the various uses of "heavens" in the New Testament.

    Therefore, Colossians 1:20 should be translated:

    "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in the heavens."

    The heavens is essentially everything that is not the earth, from the atmosphere around us, to the sky above, and into outer space to the deepest reaches of outer space. What Jesus has done has reconciled everything in the universe to Himself.

    Paul is essentially using a turn of phrase to describe all of the created order, everything from the earth below us to the most extreme distance in the sky.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I think the difficulty is we are not sure whether Paul was referring to the two created heavens (the atmosphere of earth, and space where the moon, sun, and stars are located) or did his reference include the third heaven, the abode of God and spiritual beings?
     
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