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How are we to determine...

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Bible-boy, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I have reported lots of posts.

    Again, I am not going to hold myself to a stricter standard in this forum than the moderators hold the anti-Obama people to.
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not fair, it is not accurate, it is not truthful.
     
  3. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    I understand that this is your belief. Now please disprove our conclusions regarding where President-elect Obama stands on the political spectrum by providing evidence, quotes, and sources that contradict those that we have provided (i.e. debate the issues). To do otherwise is to simply proclaim your opinion and everyone has one of those. How have we been unfair, inaccurate, and/or untruthful. We provide the quotes and links to the stated political positions, philosophies, and ideas of the Communist Party USA. Then we provided quotes and links to statements made by President-elect Obama that completely agree with the political positions, philosophies, and ideas of the Communist Party USA. We did not make these things up. We simply provided the information from both the Communist Party USA and from President-elect Obama and clearly demonstrated that the two agree on at least 90% of those political issues. If you wish to refute our conclusions please provide the evidence, quotes, links and sources that would contradict us.
     
    #23 Bible-boy, Dec 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2008
  4. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    I don't know about you, but I have reported posts from both anti-Obama posters and Obama supporters when I see them violating the BB Posting Rules and/or User Agreement. Like I said, I hold myself to standard mentioned and I expect all other BB users to do the same. However, the BB Posting Rules and User Agreement are clear and they do not provide a way for us, if we feel offended, to disregard the rules and user agreement and respond in an equally offensive way. All we can do is report the bad posts and wait for the Mods and/or Admins to address the issue. Bear in mind that as ageneral poster you do not know what takes place in the Private Moderator's Forum or what actions are carried out in private between The BB Administrative Council and other individual posters. With that said, please drop this line of off-topic discussion and return to the subject of the OP. If you wish to further discuss the BB Posting Rules and User Agreement and how the BB is Moderated please do so via PM to Forum Moderators, BB Administrators, or the BB Webmaster.
     
    #24 Bible-boy, Dec 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2008
  5. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Now back to the discussion of the OP. How are we to determine where political leaders stand on the political spectrum? It has been argued that we cannot make such a determination based upon the political views of the people with whom our political leaders associate. Likewise, it seems that some in this thread are attempting to argue that we cannot make such a determination based upon quoted statements (with references to full sources) made by our political leaders that fully agree with the published political positions, philosophies, and ideas of a given political organization (e.g. the Communist Party USA). So how are we to determine where our political leaders stand on the political spectrum? Or is it the intention of some here that we simply ought not ask such questions of certain political leaders in the first place?
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Oh..well, just trust them by their word and ignore their actions.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    And all your side has done is cherry picked certain Communist Party positions and expressed your belief that agreeing with some of them in some way means that your and my president-elect is a Communist.

    As I have said before, if the Pope says something that is correct I will agree with him and doing so does not make me a Catholic.

    Obviously, Communists advocate more government intervention in the economy than pure free market advocates do. I used to be among the pure free market advocates, but no longer. We have had a mixed economy in the nation for over a century and will continue to do so, and I think that we should.

    I consider Communism to be more about the use of force to expand socialism to other countries, much the same way that the Neo-Conservatism desires to use force to expand democracy to other countries. I reject the use of force in both instances.

    Considering how interventionist the Bush administration has become this past year, are you going to be consistent and claim that George W. Bush is a Communist?
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No cherry picking. We asked which of any of the ideas on this site does Obama disagree with. We very clearly included the whole site.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Well, if Barack Obama is a Communist then I guess I am a Communist, too. If you want to call me a Communist, then fine. I would rather be associated with Barack Obama in this regard than to be associated with right-wingers.

    Therefore, if it will make the right-wingers happy in some way they can call me a Communist from now on.

    So there.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I know of no one who has done such. Do you agree with the points on that web site?
     
  11. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Wow! From Ron Paul to a Communist sell out. Ken, Ken, Ken. All in just a few short months. That's just sad. :tonofbricks:
     
  12. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Has the U.S. government under George W. Bush taken steps towards socialism in the last few months? Why or why not? If so, isn't George W. Bush a Marxist?
     
  13. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    We can't make that claim yet. First, we have to consider that the Congress (both houses) also had a hand in pushing us in that direction. Second, we would need to research President Bush's stated political positions, philosophies, and ideas and compare/contrast them with the published political positions, philosophies, and ideas of the Communist Party USA and see what conclusions we may draw. However, this is a subject for another thread. This one is about President-elect Obama.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I am not so sure. The first question in the op was:



    Kind of leaves it open to every politician.
     
  15. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    That is false. Nothing has been "cherry picked." I provided the links to the Communist Party USA's website and their "Bill of Rights Socialism" and then I quoted the entire "Bill of Rights Socialism" piece by piece and compared/contrasted their stated political positions, philosophies, and ideas with those of President-elect Obama. I have gone point by point and issue by issue. They (the Communists and President-elect Obama) said what they said. I did not make it up. I provided the quotes with links to the full sources. After reading and analyzing both the Communist Party USA's and President-elect Obama's statements I drew conclusions based solely upon what they said. This resulted not in the presentation of my opinion; but rather, in the presentation of conclusions based upon their (CPUSA's and Obama's) statements.

    Would your agreement with the Pope on 90% or greater of RCC doctrine and dogma make you a Catholic?




    I'd suggest that you more fully educate yourself on all the aspects of both Communism and Neo-Conservatism before you make such statements which clearly reveal that you do not fully grasp either political philosophy. In other words in this debate, with statements like the above, you show that you are shooting from the hip rather than from a well informed and knowledgeable position.



    Again, we can't make that claim yet. First, we have to consider that the Congress (both houses) also had a hand in the issue. Second, we would need to research President Bush's stated political positions, philosophies, and ideas and compare/contrast them with the published political positions, philosophies, and ideas of the Communist Party USA and see what conclusions we may draw. At first glance I’d have to say no, you are wrong in that conclusion, given the Communist Party USA’s stated political position, philosophy, and ideas on the use of military force. However, this is a subject for another thread. This one is about President-elect Obama.
     
    #35 Bible-boy, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2008
  16. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Yes, but what drove the creation of this thread was a side discussion that popped up in the "President-elect Obama Marxist?" thread.

    It would just be much neater if we debated Obama stuff in Obama threads and Bush stuff in Bush threads.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Not arguing against that. I am just saying that question left a reasonable opening for all politicians.
     
  18. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Yep, I guess the way I worded the question in the OP left the door open for such discussion. However, I'd still like to keep my thread focused on one topic/individual and if discussion of another topic/individual pops up that it be taken to another thread where we focus solely on that specific new topic/individual. It just keeps the threads cleaner and easier to follow.
     
  19. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    All of them are about bashing Obama. Don't even the hard core here get tired of that? I suppose not. What a one-sided discussion.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Lets see! How long have the President Bush haters been bashing President Bush? Since he cleaned Gores clock in 2000? Well yes!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
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