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Featured How did the Apostle Paul get it so wrong?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The "new" inward man is "created in righteousness and TRUE holiness." That is not the state of our soul. However, this condition of our "spirit" effects the ruling inclination of the soul toward righteousness without empowering the soul to righteousness. Therefore, "I" delight in the law of God "after the inward man" is the confession of the seat of self-consciousness - the soul as it is inclined to righteousness, while the newly created inward man is actually created in righteousness and true holliness and cannot sin because it is "saved" or in a state of completed salvation and the proof is that the Spirit of God can dwell in SPIRITUAL UNION with our spirit.
     
  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39 KJV

    When was the Holy Spirit given to, let's say, Abraham or let's say, David?

    Would not the glorification of the Son of God having come in the flesh been necessary to them having the Holy Spirit?

    Earlier you spoke of a WHOLE MAN and of the whole man being saved. How does God save the man? In thirds? Halves? I ask because, fifty days after Jesus was risen Peter said David was still dead and that David was still buried. Just what, "part," of the WHOLE MAN, David would you say was saved at that moment in time?

    The same applies for Abraham.

    Could they be born again before the Son of God was born of woman, died and was raised from the dead, glorified by the Father?


    Who by him (Jesus the Son) do believe in God, that raised him (the Son) up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    True Christians have still done sins, even for a season, but repented and were restored back, as we can NEVER break relationship with God afyer salvation, but can our fellowship with Him due to willful sinning!
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Yes, the Spirit was not given this new house of God made up of plural water baptized believers, an INSTITUTIONAL baptism of public accreditation.

    However, the regenerating Spirit was working with the very first person saved through the gospel in Genesis (Acts 10:43; Gal. 4:29; Gal. 3:17) as Abraham was "in Christ" (Gal. 3:17).

    David's BODY was in the grave but Jesus denied that the soul of David was in the grave as He explicitly states that God is the God of the LIVING not of the dead.

    Yes, salvation of the WHOLE MAN does not occur at once and this should be obvious to you. This should be obvious as the new birth is stated in past tense completed action and the "spirit" of man is the object (Jn. 3:6) of new birth but the the human body has not been redeemed from "death" and won't be until the resurrection.


    So yes, the salvation of the "spirit" of man is PAST TENSE COMPLETED action, the salvation of the "body" is FUTURE TENSE while the LIFE expression of the soul (words and deeds) is PRESENT TENSE "redeeming the time."
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Who would you say was the very first person saved through the gospel?

    Adam? Eve? Abel? Noah? Enoch?
     
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Who would you say was the very first person saved through the gospel?

    Assuming, through the gospel, to mean; Saved in some sort of symbolic manner and or predestined to be saved and shown symbolically?

    Adam? Eve? Abel? Noah? Enoch?
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Adam with Eve - Gen. 3:15
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Past, present or future, to them?
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Do you think their fallen nature was different than yours? If spiritual separation existed between them and God due to the fall and IFpresent restoration with God did not occur PRESENTLY then they remained spiritually separated and thus spiritually dead - and therefore no salvation at all.

    The essence of the lost condition or unregenerate condition is SPIRITURAL SEPARATION from LIFE/LIGHT/RIGHTEOUSNESS which God IS! Thus to be separated from God is to be separated from LIFE/LIGHT/RIGHTEOUSNESS, that is why the Old Testament scriptures define the fallen nature of man THEN as incapable of seeking God, there is "none good, no, not one"..there is none righteous (Psa. 14:2-3). If there is no restoration from that CURRENT condition then there was no salvation, thus no restoration from that condition. However, both the Old and New Testament scriptures describe their character as one of PRESENT salvation as they are described as "righteous" and walking with God by faith (LIGHT) and thus spiritually restored to God (Life).
     
    #149 The Biblicist, Jan 27, 2015
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  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    After, God clothed them with the skins of the animals whose blood was shed, he drove them out of the garden and cut them off from something?

    What were they cut off from? Just what is salvation? Why did the Christ have to come? Why not just keep killing the sheep and goats?

    Why could the Comforter not come unless Jesus went away?

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

    What was the faith the Galatians heard about by which they received the Spirit of confidence in receiving, that is, being clothed in our house from heaven>
    They had heard about Jesus of Nazareth the Christ having been crucified among them and of God the Father of him having raised Jesus of Nazareth
    his Son from the dead. Gal 3:2 and Gal 1:1

    Because that took place they received the Spirit.

    Adam and Eve because of sin were cut off from God. Because Jesus gave his life for their sin and the Father raised him from the dead, Adam and Eve can be raised from the dead unto life.

    Right or wrong, that's the way I understand things.
     
    #150 percho, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2015
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    They were spiritually separated dead in sin at the point of sin. Preaching the gospel (Gen. 3:15) and then symbolizing that gospel in the ceremonial clothes of righteousness CAME AFTERWARDS in their spiritual restoration. However, they still retained the law of indwelling sin. They lost their sinless condition. However, the garden was for SINLESS people who could eat of the tree of life and never physically die. They were driven out of the garden as a consequence of their sin. We can be forgiven but there are consequences to sin that continue after forgiveness (like sickness, death, etc.).



    Because Jesus was filling the roll of comforter and that is why the Spirit would be "another" (allos - one of like kind) comforter after the departure of their present comforter.

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

    You are misunderstanding both the immediate and overall context of Galatians 3:1-5. The issue is between works and hearing of faith (grace). There is nothing about being clothed in our house from heaven even remotely associated with this passage.

    No wonder you struggle with so many things in scripture. Once you have a doctrinal template planted in your mind it prevents you from understanding and accepting anything contrary to that template.
     
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