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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rebel1, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Who did those astounding things? Christ and occasionally an apostle under his authority.

    Why? To give prove that Jesus was who he said he was.

    Christ is no longer here bodily and there are no more apostles trying to jump start the church. But we can still marvel at these things by reading the Bible.

    There are miracles from time to time. God heals via doctors and protects us from things like car wrecks....
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

    Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

    And there are three varieties...

    Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
    Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
    Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

    Matter can be changed to energy... m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)
    Energy can be changed to matter... E/c2 (energy)= m (matter)

    E/c2 is eternal stuff, and to her properties what we call 15 trillion years is a mere blink of the eye. Who knows how many times the plasma has been turned to mass and the mass to plasma? It is not a hard thing for God to dis-associate the mass of the universe into energy and light and then re-associate the energy and light back into matter. As a 'matter' of fact...

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

    God is going to change all mass back into the plasma energy from whence it was forged... And he will do something else with it!

    For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

    There is also a spiritual variety. Here is a story of my favorite saint, Robert Sheffey, who received this word while attending Emory and Henry....

    "After church one day at the end of the month he could not wait to trudge his way to the mountain peak, for his soul felt full and the morning sermon had opened his eyes to something. The minister had preached long and eloquently. His theme was that most of mankind did not respond to the call of God because they did not feel His lovingkindness." - The calling of RS Sheffey, The Saint of the Wilderness - Jess Carr

    It is the spiritual sensation of God's grace, lovingkindness, and light that ensures the afterlife. God is going to change all mass back into the plasma energy from whence it was forged... And he will do something else with it! I want to be there to see what he does with it!
     
  3. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Nearly every civilization in history has believed in an afterlife of some sort. These are the lost - there is the hope. Not proof, nor a sign, but a hope that drove many peoples to prepare for it.
     
  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    You already know the answer, down deep inside. You want confirmation.
     
  5. HopefulNChrist

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    But He did say this;

    John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
     
  6. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    I appreciate Rebel's question, but all in all for me right now the main thing is getting through all the trials and tribulations that exist in this life, and that is where Jesus comes in - He is helping me get through this mess.
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Eternal life? The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit now causing us to believe. And Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So we experience eternal life now which is proof, and after nature erases our sinful flesh in the grave, we will have new eternal bodies in the resurrection into the New Heavens and Earth. All made believable by the present witness of the Spirit in our hearts.
     
  8. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Yes, you helped, and I appreciated your post.
     
  9. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Well, what about John 14:12, where Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."

    Looks like to me Jesus meant for these miracles to continue in the lives of believers. And yet we seem to have such weak and ineffective churches today. Except apparently for some in the Charismatic movement -- although there are charlatans there, too, becasue I know that from experience. How I long for genuine, powerful Christianity!

    Speaking of car wrecks... in the church I am attending, a very nice lady that was a faithful Christian got killed in a car wreck back in May. She had beaten cancer and was doing well. Why didn't God protect her? Don't say because it was just her time to go. I don't believe that. I think Satan took her, and God let him. But I wonder why. Her oldest son was also in the wreck; he was seriously injured and hung on for three months before he died. The only one left is the lady's youngest son, and now he has no family at all. He wasn't in the car with his mother and brother; I think he wishes he had been -- he is not doing well.
     
    #29 Rebel1, Oct 4, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  10. HopefulNChrist

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    I wasn't going to share this because there really is no way to prove it.

    I had a memory of meeting the Lord in Heaven when I was a tot, and I was asked if I wanted to stay or go back. I wanted to stay because it was wonderful to be with God in that place, but before I could answer, my folks and some people behind them were screaming and crying for me to come back. Jesus then showed me the book of future sins that I would commit as an adult, and so I was grieved because I did not want to be separated from the Lord and that seem to prompt my folks and the people behind them to scream and cry even more. Then Jesus said, "I will see what I can do.." as He saw how I was grieved by my folks and those people behind them that seemed to needed me more desperately for why I was not giving Him an answer that I'd like.

    Now I cannot recollect for sure if that dream or memory was right before this traumatic event, but I had awaken in bed being strangled by my own bed sheets. I could not undo the knot that was at my throat that was choking me, and struggling in futility, I prayed to God to save me because I could not say or cry out for help. I had collapsed from my vain effort to die but then when my throat had relaxed, I noticed that I could breathe slightly through that small passageway in my throat, and then I began to undo the knot at my throat. I do not know how my bed sheet whose ends were on strewn out on other side of the bed with that knot around my throat, but God did save me from dying that night.

    The next morning, my mother noticed I had blood shot eyes and she was so alarmed that she called my dad over to check me out. I tried to tell them what had happened but they were just relieved that I was all right.

    Years later.... I committed those adult sins that I was/am ashamed of, even though it took another ordeal for me to remember that from long ago. Having seen the book, I do not know if those prophetic dreams of my childhood was why I was having them before they came true later on in my young adult life and since then to this present day.

    Not every dream I dream was and is a prophetic dream. I never know for sure until it happens afterwards.

    In the middle of my childhood, we had moved from the state of Iowa to Pennsylvania where that first night, I had dreamt that I went out to the mailbox, saw tow neighborhood kids walk across an empty lot between their house and our house, ( it was their lot also ) walked into our backyard, and with our garage door open with the backdoor of our garage opened as I did see the two walk past that door clear around the other side of the house and then walked into the garage thru the open garage door and knocked on the door in the garage that led to the kitchen. Odd, right?

    The very next day, I went to check the mail because I did not know how fast the mail office would forward our mail to our new place to live and I saw that happened exactly the way the dream went. I had asked "myself" what is going on? Then seemingly, I got an answer from the Lord as this thought came into my head, "The stage is set. The players is in place. The die is cast." It was the summer before I went to school for the fifth grade.

    In high school, looking back, I was having prophetic dreams there too but they and the dreams I had as a tot also came true in 1994 in an ordeal that made me remember everything, including the one.. whether it was a dream or a memory of being with Jesus in seeing the book of my future sins that was written of me if I went back and did.

    I am just glad that that the one that tried to tell me her name so I would know her when I meet her in the future in a dream is still alive. I don't want to get into that ordeal. It is past and she has married another as prophesied as well.

    The Lord has delivered me from my bondage to that sin and is keeping me from it. The "ordeal" I am presently going through was prophesied by many dreams to occur also as it now somehow gives me comfort and assurance that Jesus is still Lord while the world makes me want to go postal or commit suicide, and thus I can rely on Him to keep me from falling and present me faultless to His glory when He comes as the Bridegroom, because I know I did not want to be separated from Him because of those iniquities or any other ones. I wish I was dead to be present with the Lord, but He is helping me to wait by His grace.

    I was an arranged birth. My dad's sister could not have children and so her husband knew my mother and I was born to be given to them after the weaning was over, but time went by and I did not want to be dumped off at my uncle. I remember the relatives giving my mother a hard time, saying God will not forgive her. As a tot, I did not know what was going on and I said "God will forgive her." and one of them said, "You wouldn't if you knew what she did." And I replied, "God will forgive her and so will I."

    If I had died that day by a freak accident of being strangled by my own bedsheets, I would imagine suspicion and paranoia would lead to finger pointing, blaming, and accusations of my murder for why my folks and those other people behind them were screaming and crying for me to come back, but there were other reasons because of future people I was to meet later on in life... especially for the one I love. Then the Lord reminded me of a dream as a tot before that nightmare of her dying, that I was in Heaven with her and I was so glad she was there when my mother woke me up because I was talking in my sleep.

    The girl in my dreams had said something that made me doubt I would see her in Heaven just as she said something in real life leaving me to wonder if she really believed in God when she said that the marriage was just a piece of paper. Man, I wish I had remembered that dream that my mother had awaken me up from so that nightmare of her dying would not panic me so when I was seeing my childhood dreams coming true in 1994. She is still alive today and I live in hope of being with her in Heaven even though she was chiding me in that dream I love for thinking that she would not be there. I know that the firstfruits of the resurrection, there is no marriage in Heaven as we would be like the angels and live forever, but I thank the Lord for having His love for her as I hope in Him to see my Christian sister in Heaven soon at the pre great trib rapture event.
     
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    John 14:12 - Jesus wasn't talking about greater works in a melodramatic way - i.e. causing people's jaws to drop. He was talking about greater works in a voluminous way. What WAS Jesus' work? To reach the lost. Jesus could only reach so many people while he in a bodily form. His apostles, after his death, reached hundreds of thousands and Paul [et. al.] founded more churches than you can shake a stick at.

    Are you saying that a weak and ineffective church is one that there are no miracles being performed? That some Charismatic churches are the only ones doing the work of Christ?

    If God "allowed" the devil to take that woman's life in the car wreck, then it was her time to go. Perhaps her conquering cancer only to die in a car wreck is a message to us all that we have absolutely no guarantee of tomorrow. I'm praying for her son that remains.
     
  12. HopefulNChrist

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    Have you ever considered that Jesus meant we could do such things after He comes for us in bringing us to the Father?

    John 14: 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ........... 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.:

    Now for down here, He says we can pray and He will do it.

    John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    I know contenders would say.. no.. verse 12 is with verses 13-14, but do note the difference between verse 12 where YOU are doing this in relation to Him going to the Father which He earlier stated He would bring us to; and the verses 13-14 that cites prayer whereby He will do it. So that is why I am applying verse 12 to mean that we would be able to do those things when He has brought us Home "perfected" to the Father whereby we can do those things and greater things too; maybe even reign in creation.
     
  13. TS_TS

    TS_TS New Member

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    Let me aak another question. How do we know that the events of history happened? Especially before the camera and audio recordings? We know them only because of the supporting evidence. For the vast majority of happenings, the only remaining evidence is written accounts.

    So these things are believed because we trust the authors and translators and copyists, etc. Perhaps many historical accounts are inaccurate. Your faith in the truth of these events is only as reliable as the witnesses to them. If these witnesses are unreliable, your faith is unreliable also. You may be deceived into thinking you "know" the truth of what happened when the story is fictitious.

    But what if there was a completely reliable storyteller? One who in every case where he told a story that we could confirm and verify, such testimony was accurate?

    That storyteller is God. Since he has told us things, such as prophecy, that we can verify took place, faith in him is reasonable. Doubt is unreasonable. So when he says there is an afterlife, though we cannot verify it, his track record should cause us to use reasonable faith and believe him.
     
  14. HopefulNChrist

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    Thallus, a secular historian, recorded the darkness as an eclipse; which Josephus Africanus, another historian, but a Christian one, commented the writings of Thallus as unlikely because as a former Jew, the annual Passover happens at the full moon; scripture cites it as 15 days from the new moon; and thus hence the night of the full moon; so cannot be an eclipse.

    Phlegon was a Greek historian whom also confirmed darkness. Check out this link below:

    https://creation.com/darkness-at-the-crucifixion-metaphor-or-real-history

    Especially since He has risen from the dead.

    1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus said there was, and since He is God Incarnate....
     
  16. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    There is only one way to get to the other side and these bodies we are in have got to stop breathing. Look, we see this as a terrible accident that is bloody and with mangled bodies, but I am sure God looks at all this in a completely different manner and we just cannot fathom this because we are at this particular level. In this lady's case, her body probably didn't feel a thing and her spirit of course would not either. In the end this kind of thing remains a mystery to us.

    As for car accidents, there was a man about 50 years of age who worked at the local IGA as a bagger for some 30 years in the little town I lived in for awhile. He was developmentally disabled and the nicest person you would ever want to meet. Well, one day as usual he got off of work and jumped in the car with his uncle and on the way home the uncle veered into the oncoming lane and he was killed.

    Was it Satan who took ahold of the wheel and drove it into the left lane, or was it just an unfortunate accident and the fact that we are in these soft bodies which cannot take powerful blows, this good man was killed that day. To my mind, like the lady you knew, it was simply his time and that was that.
     
  17. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Scripture tells us that God is revealed in nature, thus anyone can know there is a God - not much use of one if there is no afterlife (chance to be with Him).
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None of us are able to resurrct the dead, nor read thoughts, nor forgive personal sins as jesus was able to do, that refers to us being able to teach and witness to many more than he couldm as he was confined to a physical body and stuck in Israel while here!
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is he teaching the heretical manifest sons of God, latter day rain, as the end churchwill be a duplicate og the one in Acts?
     
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    You're going to get on to me about the experiential realities of God through the Holy Spirit and then you post this? Brother, i believe it is time you cut me some slack.
     
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