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How does a person get saved?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury New Member

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    Seeker, I'm no more "stuck" in my beliefs than anyone else here, including you, so let's not use that as an excuse to run from a discussion.

    Okay, I'm pretty familiar with Acts 2, but I read it again just to be sure. There is no reference to Jesus being the King of the Jews in Acts 2, unless one wants to count the part about Christ being raised up to sit on David's throne.

    There is, however, an explicit mention of salvation, an identical reference as is used by Paul in Rom 10:13, oft cited by those of the "salvation by faith only" position. I mean, of course, Acts 2:21, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".

    You are correct in pointing out that there is no mention of a substitutionary death in Acts 2. Upon this basis you make the conclude that Acts 2 is not the gospel message of eternal life. If this premise neccessitates this conclusion, then the gospel is not preached in the whole book of Acts!

    That which proves too much proves nothing.

    Acts 2:16-40; 3:12-26; 8:5-12; 10:36-43; 11:14; 16:30-34; 17:22-31; 18:4-8; 19:1-5; 22:13-16; 24:24-25; 26:18

    This is a list (though not an exhaustive one) of places in Acts where people are preached to, either by an apostle or other preacher, none of which have any mention of a substitutionary death. Yet, there are people, both Jew and Gentile, believing, repenting, and being baptized. Were none of these people saved? Were none of these people granted eternal life? What on earth were the apostles doing?

    What is it that separates man from the life that is in God? Is it not sin? Did Peter tell the people how to receive the remission of sins in Acts 2:38, or not?
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    #1. That is not exegesis of anything much less Acts 2.

    #2. The Acts 2 text DOES call for both baptism and repentance JUST as we see in the great commission of Matt 28.

    #3. the burden of proof that "this baptism and repentance is not the Matt 28 baptism and repentance" of the one and only Gospel -- remains the burden of the one making such a wild assumption.

    Adding things like "yes but Peter did not say - really really really salvific before calling for baptism and repentance".

    Neither did Christ in Matt 28.

    You are simple "making stuff up" and then calling that "Bible proof"?

    Why not engage in some exegesis in Acts 2 where you make the wild claim that Baptism and Repentance should not be thought of Baptism and Repentance as we read it in the Gospels????

    In other words "get the ball rolling" -- make a point.

    Or are you arguing that I have not made any point here because no objective unbiased reader that does not already hold to your peculiar point of view here would dare think that "Baptism and repentance" is really "Baptism and repentance"?????

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Since "Seeker" appears to be somewhat reluctant to provide an ounce of exegesis from Acts 2-- I will take my turn.

    Acts 2
    32 ""This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.
    33 ""Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
    34 ""For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: " THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, ""SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
    35 UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.'''
    36 ""Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified.''
    37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "" Brethren, what shall we do?''
    38 Peter said to them, "" Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    39 ""For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.''
    40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "" Be saved from this perverse generation!''

    Acs 2:32 we see the commission and mission of the NT Evangelists and Apostles to bear witness of Christ – as John states in 1John 1:1-3.
    Acts 2:36 – God has “made him Christ” is a reference to His role as Messiah – our substitutionary atoning sacrifice – “the anointed one” of Dan 9 who “saves His people from their sins” – the Light of the World as John calls Him in John 1:4-8.
    Acts 2:38 The Apostles are preaching the same message of “Repentance and forgiveness” that they were commissioned to give in Matt 28.

    Notice that in Acts 2:32-40 we have Luke presenting the identical sequence that he gives us in Luke 24!

    Luke 24
    44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
    45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
    46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
    47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
    48 "You are witnesses of these things.
    49 "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."


    Matt 28
    18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "" All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
    19 "" Go therefore and
    make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
    20
    teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.


    There is just ONE Holy Spirit – and just ONE Gospel that promises forgiveness and repentance.

    There is but ONE baptism – in the Bible – Eph 4:5

    Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


    It was the one thing that a believing, penitent Saul of Tarsus was told that he must do (Acts 22:16).

    It is how one comes "into Christ" (Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27), where all spiritual blessings are (Eph 1:3).

    It is the only baptism commanded in the pages of the NT (Acts 2:38; 10:47-48; 22:16).

    It is the only baptism which is ever assumed in the NT (Acts 19:3; Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27; Col 2:12).

    It is the baptism which saves us (Mk 16:16; 1 Pet 3:21).


    Acts 2:38 Sequence - - In order to RECEIVE the gifts of the Holy Spirit
    - you must first have the sin-separation problem solved
    Acts 2:38 Repent + Baptized = fully prepared to receive the GIFTs of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 2:16-17 provides the context of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 saints of the Acts 1 in the NT and the fact that this is
    exactly the fulfillment of Joel 2 that men, women, children would receive it.
     
  4. SeekingHisTruth

    SeekingHisTruth New Member

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    Problem is those are only words and don't carry much meaning unless they are followed by action. Everyone on this board and every other board "says" they are willing to change, but change NEVER happens by those that claim they are so willing to change.

    So it is not an excuse to exit a discussion, but is merely a person that is dealing in reality. You show no signs of wanting to change what you currently believe and that's okay. It's not my job to convince you otherwise.

    I have laid forth what the Scripture "actually says" and that is all that I can do.

    So there IS actually a reference to Christ being the King. :) The title of "Christ" is speaking to this role as well. He was teaching them that this Jesus they crucified was "the Christ". He was the Annointed Messiah they were looking for. They were looking for a "King" and He WAS/IS that very King.

    That is the message that was preached. It was NOT a message of believe on the Substitutionary death and shed blood.

    Of course there is. But the problem is most of Christendom thinks that anytime the word "savlation", "saved", "gospel", etc. is used it is "always" speaking of the same subject and that is simply not the case.

    Scripture speaks of salvation in three different ways. There is a past (completed) salvation . . . I have been saved. There is a present salvation . . . I am being saved. And there is a future salvation . . . I will be saved.

    There are different reqirements for the past salvation than there are for the present/future salvation. They are dealing with different aspects of our being and the results are different.

    We must keep these messages in the proper context. The past salvation is through believe/faith (Acts 16:30-31, Eph. 2:8-9). It is a "completed" action with results that NEVER change for anything.

    The next aspect of salvation has to do with a faith that works (James, Paul, Gospels). We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. This is an aspect of salvation that deals with our inheritance and not our eternal destiny. It is a salvation that can be had and then given up (all the warnings).

    Until we are willing to keep texts in the proper contexts we are going to continue to make mistakes with Scripture.

    With all due respect your faith system places contradictions on Scripture that simply can not exist. Your faith system requires works on the part of the person and that directly violates several Scriptures, but the easiest to see are Acts 16 and Eph. 2.

    If you would like to search the Scriptures regarding these matters just send me a PM and I can help point you in the right direction. This is not an "easy" matter to make our way through.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    How does a person get saved?

    Wrong question!

    There is no how to salvation; there is no 'getting saved' to salvation. Nothing, no formula, no step by step instruction, no precisely following the instruction - nothing, saves, because it is God and God only who saves. The question is not 'How save / saved, but WHO saves and saved.

    In 'theological' terms: Salvation is all by Grace, by God, by Christ; through faith: the strict gift of Grace so that salvation is of God, by God, and through God in Unity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit: The Unity no man can enter into and so no man can share in his own redemption.
     
  6. SeekingHisTruth

    SeekingHisTruth New Member

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    I guess Paul lied then?

    What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Sure sounds like a how to to me. And believe is an active imperative, which means "you" the one I'm talking to "do" something.

    Yes salvation is of the Lord, meaning that all the requirements that needed to be "acted" on were done on our behalf, but God does not arbitrarily make someone believe and make others not to believe, else again Paul was lying.

    Why is it that today we have so much trouble remaining silent and letting Scripture say what it says? :tear: :tear: :tear: :tear:
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Excellent post. There most definately is a "how" when it comes to salvation. Denial of that is hyper calvinism.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Rom 10
    8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
    9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord,
    and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, [b]you will be saved;
    10 for
    with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/b]
    11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
     
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