1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

How does a Preterist Determine what is Metaphoric and what is Literal in Prophecy

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by revmwc, Jun 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 7
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    REVMAC,

    These were just offered as an example....Chilton offers specific answers to most of what you posted in detail...have you read this work? I am not sure I agree with all of His ideas...but I guarantee the verses offered will give you plenty to think about.
    You can download it for free online.
     
    #41 Iconoclast, Jun 9, 2011
  2. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have not read the fictional "Left Behind" series and therefore I'm not as qualified to discuss them as you are. I don't understand what you mean about me getting my theology from the newspapers. Are you referring to the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal? I think perhaps you know me better than I know me.

    Here we are, 40 responses into this thread and yet you preterists have not answered the OP.
     
    #42 thomas15, Jun 10, 2011
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Thomas
    What about Joel 2 Acts 2 ?
     
    #43 Iconoclast, Jun 10, 2011
  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    I might fall into the partial group. I preached once(through His blessing me) that we have been in the last days since Peter spoke what he did in Acts chapter two.
     
    #44 convicted1, Jun 10, 2011
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    remember that the Bibl einregards to prophecy seems to have a partial fulfillment now with a future full fulfillment to still come!
     
    #45 JesusFan, Jun 10, 2011
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Futurists say that ....but
    peter did not....he said ......this is that so read joel 2 and joel three in light of what peter said......then do the same everytime you see the apostles identify a prophecy.....like this one

    This also was fulfilled.....not future!
     
    #46 Iconoclast, Jun 10, 2011
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Willis,

    Not all preterists are full preterist...In fact most are partial.
    Jesus has not returned bodily and visibly to earth until the last day,and the white throne judgement.

    Many believe the "last days" were the last days of the jewish theocracy which the cross does away with,and then fully and finally was done away with the temples destruction in 70 ad...that is why 70 ad is brought up all the time.

    It is possible we are still the early church.....and the world could go on for thousands of years.......or not.....God knows.
     
    #47 Iconoclast, Jun 10, 2011
  8. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My answer: What about my post #34?
     
    #48 thomas15, Jun 10, 2011
  9. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Its not very kind to misrepresent the views of others. The world will not go back to that system. The Jews will. And the reason will not be because God requires it but it will be because at that point they will have control of the temple mount and they will still be rejecting Christ. Dispensationalists do not get excited about the sacrifices being reinstated by Israel because we believe it is the right thing to do, but because it will be the fulfillment of scripture.
     
    #49 mandym, Jun 11, 2011
  10. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,385
    Likes Received:
    23

    During these 1000 years, Israel will be the chief nation of the world and will be restored to the full dimensions of her land which God promised. Mt. Zion will be raised up as the chief mountain in the world and it is from here that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem (Ps. 68:16; 132:13-14; Micah 4:1-8). King David will be resurrected and will be the chief prince over the nation of Israel (Jer. 30:9; Ezek. 37:24-25). All other nations will honor Israel and will worship God in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that those nations who do not come up to Jerusalem every year to worship God will be punished with no rain.

    http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0015.html

    Premillennialism

    This view is the view of the early church fathers which takes a literal approach to the Scriptures. It teaches that after the seventieth week of Daniel is completed, Christ will establish His kingdom here on earth and reign for 1000 years. The primary subjects of this kingdom will be the surviving remnant of Israel that will eventually turn to Christ as their true Messiah and King just after the completion of the seventieth week. There will also be a remnant from among the surviving Gentile nations, especially from Egypt and Assyria, none of which will have taken the mark or worshiped the beast or his image. Premillennialists have various views on the timing of the Rapture, but they all place that momentous event before the 1000-year reign of Christ and His kingdom.

    http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0020.html
     
    #50 Grasshopper, Jun 11, 2011
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    What is all that trash you just posted under premiliniallism?


    This is the pre-trib pre-mil I believe.
    Christ will come as 1 Thessaloninas 4 tells us for His church and then starts the 70th week of Daniels seventy weeks. During the tribulation many people will be saved and 144,000 Jews will be proclaiming Jesus as Messiah. The 144,000 will be saved after the Church is taken out. Then when the 7 years of Tribulation is complete Christ comes as conquering King. He defeats the evil trinity which consist of Satan, The Beast and the False Prophet (false messiah). The unbelievers are put to death and ONLY Believers enter the Kingdom, John in Revelation makes it very clear Jesus rules over All nation and All nations come to offer oblation to Jesus as their King their Lord and saviour. During this time which we are told is a 1000 years, satan is in the bottomless pit witrh no power over the earth no influence on the people. Then at the end of the 1000 years satan is loosed musters an army to try and overthrow Christ. Upon failing Christ judges the unbelievers at the Great White throne all not found written in the lambs book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his angels, the Beast and False prophet. Peter tells us the existing heaven and earth are renovated by fire and the New Jerusalem, John tells us comes down from the air and rest on the new earth. So will we ever be with the Lord.

    No where are we told King David will be raised we are told that those which He (Jesus) Chooses will reign with Him that could be the disciples as the church is seen coming with Him. But Christ will reign on the Throne of David.
     
    #51 revmwc, Jun 11, 2011
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,385
    Likes Received:
    23
     
    #52 Grasshopper, Jun 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2011
  13. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
     
    #53 revmwc, Jun 11, 2011
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,385
    Likes Received:
    23
    You were nowhere in the conversation until you decided to interject yourself into it. Then get all offended by what I post about pre-mill, acting as if I made it up. So I then posted leading Dispies such as Waalvoord and Pentecost who backed my point up. If you think it's trash then fine, I'm with you.

    10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    Chapter 3
    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    A literal interpretation does not allow you to call it a "renovation".

    Does your view say that 2 Thess. 1 is the same event as 2 Peter 3?
     
    #54 Grasshopper, Jun 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2011
  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    I was not offended by what you posted just stated it was trash as to how most of the dispensationalist believe. None that I have read hold that the Kingdom begins with only unbelievers as it stated and none have shown that King David is risen and reigning on the throne of Israel, all I have read say it Christ as David's son who is reisen is sitting on the Throne of David in the millinial.
    I will need to go check all those you listed and what they believe, I have read some of Chafers works on it and Walvoord I have seen just a little more, I know I have never read any of them saying the kingdom will have those beginning it to be unbelievers who need to be saved as you posted, and none of them have I read that say David will be actually resurected and sitting on the throne which is what the portion of pre-mil you posted said. I will check into it.

    As for the 2 Thessalonians passage

    I believe you are speaking here:

    6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    Is a companion verse to Revelation 19:
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


    So 2 Peter 3 is not the same as 2 Thessalonians 1 again it goes with the Revelation 21 passage I posted for you.
     
    #55 revmwc, Jun 12, 2011
  16. FinishedWork

    FinishedWork New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am also a Preterist
     
    #56 FinishedWork, Aug 28, 2011
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,595
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Welcome to the BB! Why don't you introduce yourself on the Welcome Forum? There are several PPs and a few FPs here on board.
     
    #57 kyredneck, Aug 29, 2011
  18. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    I see with all these post and especially from Preterist none have answered the title to this thread.
    " How does a Preterist Determine what is Metaphoric and what is Literal in Prophecy"
     
    #58 revmwc, Aug 29, 2011
  19. lastday

    lastday New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is not yet Fulfilled?

    Revmwc:

    Futurists as well as both Partial and Full Preterists should agree that the Day of God Almighty's Wrath awaits the death of the last martyr and also that the appointed time for their resurrection and rewards await the personal coming of Christ to "destroy those who are destroying the earth" according to Rev.11:18.

    Jesus promised to "raise up all believers on the last day". The word "ALL" requires that "everyone who must still be killed must be killed" before the End of the Age and before Christ can "appear with all the saints". Rev.6:9-11.

    That Day of Wrath and Resurrection will occur during the Feast of Tabernacles which should be either a Saturday or a Sunday...depending on whether Christ appears with "all the saints before or during the twilight hour to end the Jewish sabbath and begin their week of Jubilee celebration.
    Mel
     
    #59 lastday, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2011
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Alot of times the NT interprets OT scriptures in a spiritual way...that means something literally...but the fulfillment is not strictly in the literal realm..


     
    #60 Iconoclast, Aug 31, 2011
Page 3 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...