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How does one lose his salvation?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by CubeX, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    I love your assumptions! "you are on-line or you wouldn't be posting here" I believe you are right! :D Thank you for supplying me with those words. I wouldn't have thought of a few of them.

    But I believe it would help you to know that I have had 2 courses in Biblical Interpretation and Textual Interpretations along with personal study of text criticism and higher criticism. I use atleast 3, if not 5 or more Bible interpretations before making a conclusion. I always use the Greek NT, KJV, and NIV. For personal understanding though, I like to use the NLT and esp. TM.

    What courses have you taken? You seem to have a rather solid belief and understanding.

    -David
     
  2. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    The reason rejection is what causes one to loose there Salvation is because in doing so you no longer have faith. Christ said;
    Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
    I know Calvinist must have an explanation for this so lets hear it.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  3. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    I might ask the folks who think you can reject your salvation a question:

    how wonderful is Christ's salvation?

    is it something you value?

    as a true believer do you feel that anything you own even begins to compare to your salvation?

    if a true believer in Christ has 'tasted and seen' that the Lord is good, why would he reject so great salvation?

    The answer is that he wouldn't. A person who rejects salvation is one who was never saved to begin with for who could have all their sins forgiven and enter the good graces of God through Christ and decide that isn't good enough?
     
  4. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    As Wes, Outwest has pointed out earlier (& now I see he is right), we should probably make a move to define salvation USING SCRIPTURE. That is the only way to define it.

    -David
     
  5. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    My explanation of eternal security/final perseverance.

    1. Christ keeps his sheep

    John 10:27-29
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 17:11,12
    And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    2. Salvation is frequently referred to as being everlasting

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:36
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 4:14
    But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    Something that is everlasting has no end. It is everlasting without condition. Should a condition be put on the existence of something everlasting, it must by definition become possible not definite. Salvation is stated as lasting forever in very definite terms.

    3. Forgiveness of sins means believers are no longer under condemnation

    John 3:18
    He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 5:24
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Romans 8:1
    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    4. Believers are sealed by God

    2 Corinthians 1:21,22
    Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

    Ephesians 1:13,14
    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Ephesians 4:30
    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Other verses to consider: Everlasting life- John 6:40, John 6:47, Romans 6:22, 1 Timothy 1:16; God's faithfulness in keeping us- 1 Corinthians 1:7-9, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, 2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:28, 1 Peter 1:3-5, Jude 24-25.


    Summing it up scripturally:

    John 8:36- If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
     
  6. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Whetstone;
    This is why I believe you can reject your own Salvation. Men have turned from God and persued evil and Calvinist say they were never saved in the first place. You see there answer is one of critical judgement and it's the Salvation of another they judge. I can't do that I'm not Christ. Neither can they and they will be judge by that same measure. Of course having no fear of God helps Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  7. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    [​IMG] your silly exclaimation points mean nothing to me mike. ha-HA [​IMG]

    Anyways- on a serious note- what about the verses above? Can you explain all of them away?

    Dan
     
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Whetstone,
    We are not looking at "eternal security/final perseverance" We are looking for the definition of "Salvation".
    What is it?
    When is it?
    Who does it?
    HOW is it done?
    WHY is it done?
    And Where is it Done?
     
  9. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Whetstone;
    What you over look is that you don't have eternal life yet. You could still die at any moment.If you did have it, you'd never die.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  10. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    Who do you think Hebrews 10:29-31 refers to?

    "Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

    We read hear that the person(s) referred to "was sanctified". Is there any reference in the entire New Testament, where a non-believer, or non-elect person, is referred to as "sancitified"? It is evident that those referred to here are indeed born-again believers. "The Lord will judge His people". Not language that would be used for the non-elect? This passage can ONLY be taken to refer to the distinct possibility that one who is saved, can lose their salvation, or else the words are simply empty!
     
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    John 3:18 "Whoever believes is not JUDGED", Signed, Jesus.

    Who has the last word, the writer of Hebrews or Jesus who is God the Son, The Christ.
     
  12. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    Again, Wes is right.

    The What, When, and Where questions are going to be to most difficult to answer on a level of agreement I believe. We would probably agree that a means for salvation was accomplished by Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross and His ressurection, or else Christianity would be a hoax. Nothing more than a philosophical, non-historically based religion. There are plenty of those in the world already. We would all agree that God grants salvation through His grace and love and that the reason why we can have salvation is also the same answer: God's grace and love.

    -David
     
  13. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    I think that we would all say that Jesus would, but your argument leans toward an imperfect Scripture.

    -David
     
  14. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Why?

    Can't you see the perfection in what Jesus promised us if we but believe in him? He first promised us everlasting life, and second that by believing in Him we will not be judged!

    My Gracious what a wonderful savior is Jesus my Lord!
     
  15. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    Answering "Why?"

    -Because you indicated that Hebrews is irrelavent.

    But that is not the point. Maybe there is some misunderstanding between us, from both or one of us. Let's continue forward. (It's sad that we have to say that so that neither one would argue on such a trivial issue - but, we ARE only human! :D )

    -David
     
  16. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    CubeX,
    When it comes to hebrews vs Jesus, I'm Jesus all the way! That does not say that Hebrews is irrelavent. But the Author of Hebrews will not be available to offer defense for me in God's court, in the unlikely event that I am wrong to believe in and trust Jesus.
     
  17. CubeX

    CubeX New Member

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    I will agree there.
    -David
     
  18. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Not to mention (but I will anyway ;) ):

    "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost
    which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    For ye are bought with a price
    : therefore glorify God in your body,
    and in your spirit, which are God’s." 1 Cor. 6:19-20
     
  19. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    I believe that it can refer to a chastening of His children here on Earth, but that the final verse in the chapter precludes any possibility for loss of salvation.
     
  20. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Then please explain why we find in the scriptures all the various warnings against "falling away", especially the one in Revelation about one's name being blotted from the Book of Life?
     
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