How far should we forget sin?

What we are capable of or not is not the issue; we are commanded to forgive and I do think God enables us to forigive others if we are willing.

But forgiveness does not mean we have to trust the person, as someone pointed out. That has to be earned.

As for pedophilia, I view that differently than murder. Murder is a one time thing (if they just killed once) but pedophilia is an ongoing condition that might surface again, like alcoholism. Just as it might not be good to let an alchoholic, even if he or she is recovering from it, run a bar or work in a liquor store, so a pedophile, even if saved, should not work with children.

I am not saying alchoholism is as bad as pedophilia - just using that for an analogy in the context of how the person must struggle with it each day.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. Trust is part of forgiveness. If we dont trust someone then we are still holding their sins against them, and that is not true forgiveness.

AJ

 

I just don't see how you can say forgiveness and trust are the same thing; they are not.

Forgiveness is not holding the wrong against the person. This does not mean you have to trust them right away; you forgive them but they might still be unstable or whatever.

If a spouse is unfaithful, you can forgive him/her but it might take time to trust them. You are not holding the wrong against them, but you are giving them a chance to earn that trust.

Forgiveness does not mean we are foolish and let people run all over us. I would not let a pedophile ever work with children. For one thing, it is putting temptation before them.

 

Another example, AJ: Your child swipes your car keys and takes the car without asking permission. Maybe he/she wrecks the car, too.

You forgive him or her, but do you think you should let him/her have the keys again real soon? Of course not.

 

I would never let a pedophile work with children either...that is why I say it is impossible to completely forgive him. God seperates us from our sin as far as the east is from the west and remembers it no more...but humans will always remember and associate a person with their past sins. therefore we cant truely and completely forgive. Only God can.

AJ

 

I say that the reality is that as long as I dont trust that child I havent forgiven them.

AJ

 

The only person who would need to forgive the pedophile would be the person who the pedophile has harmed, and the parents of the child. I do think it's possible.

Forgiving is not forgetting. It is not holding the wrong against the person. You forgive in the power and strength of the Holy Spirit, not in your own flesh.

People have forgiven terrrible wrongs as believers; it is a wonderful witness to the world of God's forgiveness.

If God has forgiven you everything, how can you not forgive?

 

I agree with Marcia, there are many times a person might not fully trust someone, and it would have nothing to do with us not having forgiven them of something. Trust and forgiveness are not the same thing.

One example I can think of is a friend that had a habit of bragging, to the point of sometime stretching the truth. I loved this person as a dear friend, and understood it came more from insecurity than anything else. He didn't do it for gain, he didn't do it to cause trouble. Because of that I would not always trust everything he might say in ever instance, but I understood excepted his minor flaw, and forgave him of this in my heart.

I have also know people that would lose their temper easily, and then feel bad and apologize. I forgave them, but might not trust to place them in certain situation for fear of how they might handle it.

I could go on and on about how they are different.

 

There are many people that dont forgive child molestors, even people that dont know them. You dont have to be the victim of the offense to hold animosity and disdain for that person.

I will give you a more simple example, there are a few, not many, but a few people in my church that refuse to get to know me and even shun me because i have been divorced and am now remarried. God has forgiven me, but these folks cant. Do they want me to leave my wife and baby and go find my drug addicted ex-wife and remarry her?

I am not sure I buy into the whole "forgive in the Holy Spirit" concept. Thats like telling someone you cant stand that you "love them as a christian"or you "love them in the eyes of God"...it is not true. If you cant stand them, then you cant stand them. If I "forgive" someone in the spirit (and I am not really completely sure what that means) but I am repulsed by them in my flesh, then I havent forgiven them, period.

I am sorry, I do believe that we are supposed to forgive as the Bible instructs us to, but I think that folks make excuses for their unforgiveness and try to justify it with bible rhetoric that is misused. God completely forgives, and until we can totally let go and remember the sins no more, then we havent truely forgiven.

AJ

 

Aj, While yes we shouldn't be repulsed by them you make it sound like you think we should feel the exact same towards everyone because of our love for them. There are brothers and sisters in Christ, that I love, but I can't deny that their personalties and mine do not click the same as I might with others. We are not robots or Stepford wives because we are Christians. We can draw closer to some, we can trust some more completely without harboring something that needs to be forgiven. I don't think it is biblical to say that nobody will annoy me, but how I respond to that person despite that is what we are instructed of.

 

I dont think it is right, but yes, for the sake of the peace in the church, you should encourage them to find another way to serve.

AJ

 

There are people in my church that i clash with on a personal basis, but I try to treat everyone the same whether they are my favorite or not. As a matter of fact, i try at times to go out of my way to make a special effort to fellowship with them. If a person has repented of their sins, no matter how bad they were, then they are just as forgiven as any of us, and we need to treat them the same even if it takes an effort on our part.

I would say that if I am having a hard time accepting a repentent sinner as a christian and worthy of the same treatment as myself, then it is I that needs to repent.

AJ

 

As a matter of fact, I became friends with a man in my former church. He and his wife were very friendly with me and my wife and we kind of hung together at church functions. One day my wife looked up the local sex offender registry and there he was, picture and all, with a crime against a child. I dont think I ever looked at him the same way again or socialized with at all, and I was wrong for that. It is me that needs to repent of that situation, not him.

AJ

 

Exactly, but then can you not envision a situation where you might not trust to place an individual for how they might react, but it would have nothing to do with if you have forgiven them or not?

 

Well, I think it would. A lack of trust means I havent let go of what they did and still hold it against them, and that is unforgiveness.

But thats just my way of seeing it, and I do respect your view.

AJ

 

Well maybe I can't look into your heart.

 

I respect yours as well, and the high standard you are holding yourself to. I just think there is a separation between unbridled trust and forgiveness. Completely trusting everyone in every situation equally is like expecting someone to be able do the same thing, with the same ability, and results as everyone else. It is not realistic, and I don't believe is the same as forgiveness.

 

I have truely enjoyed this conversation and have several things to look up in my bible as a result of it. Its sharing thoughts like this that help me to grow and learn.

You folks have a good night. Time to go to bed if I am going to make Sunday School in the morning.

AJ

 

I have enjoyed it as well, goodnight AJ