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How many of America's leading churches ...

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by All about Grace, Apr 4, 2003.

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  1. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    are KJVO?

    I was delivered out this bondage several years ago and have no desire to even discuss it any more, but I thought of this question recently when reflecting back on my old KJVO days.

    Out of the fasting growing and largest evangelical churches in America (Baptist or non-Baptist), how many can you name that are KJVO?

    And before someone pulls the old "success is not always measured in numbers" bit, let me qualify by saying churches that preach salvation by grace alone.

    I am familiar with many mega-churches and their ministries and I honestly cannot think of one that is KJVO (and I am thinking of mega-churches in terms of drive-in crowd only and not mega-bus ministries).

    So let the fun begin. The only rule I will impose is that the church has to run over 5k in attendance without buses.

    Simple question: how many large and growing evangelical churches over 5k attendees (without buses) can you name that are King James Version Only?
     
    #1 All about Grace, Apr 4, 2003
  2. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

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    Let me ask what does attendance have to do with anything? Probably the reason theae chruches are 5K and bigger is because they lack standards, they lack committment, they are guilty of easy believism.

    It is one thing to say one preaches the gospel, but Christ said teach them ALL things. That includes separated living.
     
    #2 Ernie Brazee, Apr 4, 2003
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    SBCbyGrace, I don't know much about mega-churches, but I am curious about your stipulation - "over 5k attendees (without buses)." I guess I don't know much about bus ministry either, but I wonder why you nixed them out of the equation. And, finally, do you believe that there is a cause and effect relationship between Bible version used and church size? And, if so, do you think this means that the Bible version causes the church growth (either directly or indirectly), or do you think that it merely speaks to popularity? Thanks.
     
    #3 rlvaughn, Apr 4, 2003
  4. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight New Member

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    I agree that attendence has nothing to do with anything.

    But to answer the question, one the largest churched in the world is KJVO. That is the First Baptist Church of Hammond,IN. They have well over 30,000 members. That is the church Jack Hyles pastored before he died, and Jack Schaap is the pastor now. They have always been KJVO. Im not exactly sure but that may be the largest Baptist church in the country.
     
    #4 Preacher Nathan Knight, Apr 4, 2003
  5. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    I would tend to agree with Ernie... first time for everything, eh???

    One caveat though. I would say a big church is big because of the reasons Ernie list or because they are extraordinarily effective at making disciples.

    Pastor Bob, Did you ever verify/invalidate those accusations against Jack Hyles?
     
    #5 Scott J, Apr 4, 2003
  6. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    While I agree in spirit with Ernie's post, one has to ask Ernie: have you been to ALL these churches and have appraised them the way you have painted them? Seems like the Bible says something about bearing false witness.....

    Besides, small, IFB, KJVOs can be just as guilty of a watered down gospel no standards. I know many that are for a fact.
     
    #6 TomVols, Apr 4, 2003
  7. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

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    Wow, thirty thousand people! Does that many actually show up EVERY SUNDAY?
     
    #7 Pete Richert, Apr 4, 2003
  8. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    While First Baptist of Hammond is large and KJV only, they are the exception and not the rule. How large would this church be if it were not for Hyles-Anderson College?

    It is difficult to build a large church, where the true gospel is preached, and force people to use one version, especially one that is written in 17th century English.

    I do not think that the size has anything to do with it. KJV only churches are a dying breed. I do not mean this with disrespect. If a group of christians want to limit themselves to one version they certainly have the right to do so.

    I have been a christian for over 30 years. During this time I have noticed that the number of churches that hold to KJV only standards are becoming fewer and fewer. The last 3 or 4 churches we have been members at do not specify any version as supreme, although the version of choice at our present church is the NIV.

    Looking back I do not feel that the preaching quality has declined, if fact, I think it has increased. As far as standards are concerned, many point to old-fashioned churches and claim that the old standards have been lost. Many of these "old standards" needed to be lost. They were ridiculous to begin with.

    This church today has to reach people who live today. This is very difficult to do with medieval tools.
     
    #8 Terry_Herrington, Apr 5, 2003
  9. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    To all those who suggest size doesn't matter: It sure did matter to the KJVO proponents of the last generation. I've heard Dr Hyles on more than one occasion talk about how the largest church in such and such state was a ____________(you fill in the blank with all the fundy adjectives: KJVO, seperated, etc.) IFB church. Size was their measuring stick for God's blessing.

    Suddenly a generation or so later there are very few large, growing KJVO churches. I do not believe there is necessarily a direct correlation between translation choice and growth. I believe it is more of a mindset difference. However I do believe the KJVO mindset helped lead to the demise of a movement that could have led the way but have now faded into the background. That is what happens when one allows the minor issues to become the major issues and suddenly one has isolated himself to the point of near extinction.

    One thing is certain: God does not bless division and the KJVO group have been leaders in dividing the body and causing it to focus upon the wrong things.

    BTW please do not dishonor integrity by using 30k and 1st Baptist Hammond in the same sentence. FBCH might barely meet the criteria I set when their bus ministry is factored out of the equation.

    My unofficial experiment seems to be proving my theory true.

    Of course one can always fall back on Ernie's excuse: no standards equals large numbers [​IMG] :rolleyes:
     
    #9 All about Grace, Apr 5, 2003
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Probably not. However, any number you hear out of Hylesland needs to be verified. If as many people got saved as they say has been throughout the years, the entire midwest would be saved, IFB, KJVO, separated, etc.
     
    #10 Daniel David, Apr 5, 2003
  11. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    It's not nice to tease me like that. [​IMG]
     
    #11 Pastor_Bob, Apr 6, 2003
  12. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord New Member

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    ...hmmm... most of the Word of Faith-people use the KJV exclusively... :eek:

    Be blessed.

    Alex
     
    #12 Jesus is Lord, Apr 6, 2003
  13. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    So if a KJVO church is over 5K, then it also lack standards, commitment, and is guilty of easy believeism?

    BTW - I believe Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church is a KJVO and is over 5K. D James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (over 5k) uses the KJV for pulpit readings, but is not KJVO.

    I belive Benny Hinn's church is KJVO :eek:

    Some Calvary Chapels are KJVO, and several are over 5K.
     
    #13 Johnv, Apr 7, 2003
  14. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I think Thomas Road is KJVP, isn't it?
    I'm not sure Coral Ridge is KJVO or KJVP.
     
    #14 TomVols, Apr 7, 2003
  15. Jude

    Jude <img src=/scott3.jpg>

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    "Give me that old King James Bible, give me that old King James Bible, give me that old King James Bible, if it was good enough for 1. Grandma 2. Benny 3. Jesus...it's good enough for me!"
     
    #15 Jude, Apr 12, 2003
  16. AV Defender

    AV Defender New Member

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    A lot of folks "use" the KJB;but wherether they believe it is another story..
     
    #16 AV Defender, Apr 12, 2003
  17. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Riiiiight! you are JYD. That's exactly why we keep asking you to prove KJVOnlyism from the scriptures rather than your own mind.

    The characteristic marker for charismatics and pentacostals is that they trust experiences and what the "see" as much or more than scripture.... not unlike KJVO's.
     
    #17 Scott J, Apr 12, 2003
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Was First Baptist, Hammond, a mega church totally dependent upon busing and a college, KJVO in 1960? No.

    NO ONE WAS. This sect of Christianity did not exist.

    What about 1970 when this sect began its infiltration of fundamentalism? No. Dr. Hyles took great pride in 'punching holes' in the KJVO arguments and would not allow such to be taught.

    But by 1980 a number of the churches that supported Hyles schools and a number of his closest friends began to adopt a new battle plan - KJVO is a new "issue" that shows who is fundamental or not.

    So Hyles and his church adopted the KJVO position and championed it. Now they are under a new pastor and still KJVO, as is their ilk.

    The fundamentals of the faith never included KJVO and never will. Most larger churches realize that.
     
    #18 Dr. Bob, Apr 13, 2003
  19. LRL71

    LRL71 New Member

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    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMENNN!!!! :cool:
     
    #19 LRL71, Apr 13, 2003
  20. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    How did you know Jack Hyles was cooking the attendance numbers..his lips were moving?
     
    #20 go2church, Apr 14, 2003
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