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Featured How Many Resurrections In Revelation? Two

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Darrell C, Apr 29, 2015.

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How many resurrections in Revelation?

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  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    The Tree of Life is not available until the Eternal State:




    Revelation 20:11-12

    King James Version (KJV)

    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



    Revelation 21

    King James Version (KJV)

    21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


    Revelation 22

    King James Version (KJV)

    22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:




    If this tree of life is similar or identical to that in the Garden, then that would suggest that the tree in the Garden was not meant to sustain life either, seeing that the life we have and will have in the Eternal State does not come from the tree, but from God. It is just my view that this is the case with Adam, that he was in relationship with God as we are now, indwelt and having God as the source of life. The difference being that death entered through Adam's disobedience, and death will be destroyed and not present in the Eternal State:



    1 Corinthians 15:26

    King James Version (KJV)

    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.



    Revelation 20:14

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


    Revelation 21:4

    King James Version (KJV)

    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


    Not that death is a persona, such as the Greeks viewed Thanatos, I think it was, but dying will not be a possibility for those glorified. It will not be a possibility for the lost, either.

    The tree of life, the fruit, and the leaves speak of the consequences of sin, as Revelation 22:3 states...there shall be no more curse:


    Genesis 3:17-18

    King James Version (KJV)

    17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

    18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;


    So I have come to look at these things as more evidence than actually something that we might view like magic trees, fruit, or leaves, but again, this is just the view I have come to take, and that view is based on the limited information we have.


    God bless.
     
    #41 Darrell C, May 1, 2015
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. Another member speaks of how she simply abandoned eschatological discussions and I think it is primarily because some people get ugly in the discussion. I use to take a view that eschatology was not that important, but the more I have gotten into it the more I understand just how important it is to our soteriology. It has also given me a higher regard for the harmony of Scripture, because when we begin putting all of the pieces together they fit beautifully.

    On the way back yesterday my wife and I went through a number of passages dealing with the Tribulation and the Return of Christ. I think I will start a thread entitled "How Long is the Tribulation," because that is another issue that is debated, and I think it can be made clear that the Tribulation is Daniel's Seventieth Week and for obvious reasons it will be seven years long. Revelation 11 is just one passage that helps make this clear.

    But there is no reason, or shouldn't be, anyway, why those of different views cannot present the basis for their views and this be a rewarding discussion. The perspectives of our brothers and sisters can sometimes point something out that we have not previously considered. That is what has been a driving force in the views I hold today. I am in debt to those who disagree with me, lol. It's when the weak or conflicting points in our views are pointed out that we are forced to test our own views, and it will either strengthen them, or force us to reconsider.


    God bless.
     
    #42 Darrell C, May 1, 2015
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And just a request, those that voted 2,4, and none of the above, if you can, please share your reasoning with us. Curious to see why those views are taken.


    God bless.
     
    #43 Darrell C, May 1, 2015
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Good question. I believe it will be so revmwc. Even in eternity, though we are resurrected and glorified. we will still need Him. The tree of life will be the eternal reminder of His sustaining love. That would be my view.


    HankD
     
    #44 HankD, May 1, 2015
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    By the way, there's another thread in Other Denominations that is hitting on some other issues, in case your interested in addressing some of those responses.


    God bless.
     
    #45 Darrell C, May 1, 2015
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You are correct of course but you must understand that the Darbyites have a unique ability to take almost any passage in Scripture and read into it justification for a pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church.
     
    #46 OldRegular, May 1, 2015
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So is that their point? To find 'the rapture' in Revelation amongst all these many resurrections?

    I liked the point Eliyahu made on another on the numerous redundant 'resurrection threads' that's been generated:

    Now THAT is a profound observation!:thumbsup:
     
    #47 kyredneck, May 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2015
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you did not read the remarks by Walvoord I posted, seven resurrections and I believe the fifth is the first! No actually he seems to say the sixth is the first. Well anyhow you can read it and figure out for yourself!

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2214754&highlight=Walvoord#post2214754
     
    #48 OldRegular, May 1, 2015
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Oh I read it, it never surprised me. Walvoord, Ryrie, Chafer, Scofield, Darby, there's no telling the chop suey from one passage these all could come up with together.
     
    #49 kyredneck, May 1, 2015
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Disruption reported. Stay on topic. Find another thread to slander people in.


    God bless.
     
    #50 Darrell C, May 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2015
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Spamming reported. Stay on topic. Find another thread to slander people in.


    God bless.
     
    #51 Darrell C, May 2, 2015
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    #52 Darrell C, May 2, 2015
  13. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Care to actually address what's in this thread?

    That's nearly a page you two have wasted in this thread.


    God bless.
     
    #53 Darrell C, May 2, 2015
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's not 'spam'. I asked you earlier to state your point in all these resurrection threads and you never answered.

    Is your point to prove 'the Rapture' from Revelation?
     
    #54 kyredneck, May 2, 2015
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    It was spam you were responding to and there is nothing I see in these recent statements, which are entirely off topic, that has to do with the point of "all these resurrection threads," which has only been two.

    You and your buddy disrupted the first one by ignoring the OP and seeking to troll the thread.

    You two do that in every thread where your doctrine is shown to be not only erroneous, but Catholic.

    As to answering your question I did:



    You know exactly the purpose of this thread, which is to address how many resurrections there are in Revelation.

    When we can openly state how many we see and why we see that number we show we can be honest.

    In nearly every Rapture thread you and you cohort disrupt, slander, spam, and troll to the point where you antagonize everyone trying to have a conversation and completely destroy any attempt to look at the issues involved.

    You refuse to answer simple questions, instead hurling insults and atrocious doctrine which cannot defend itself.

    And one of those Catholic views is that there is only one resurrection in Revelation, which has been pointed out for the error it is, but because you will not address the points, questions, and responses to that view it keeps conversation from progressing.

    So if the only way to get you two to stay on topic is to appeal to moderation...so be it. I don't like to do that but no one can say I have not given you more than enough opportunity to defend your view.

    If we look through the last thread we tried to address this issue I would be surprised if there were more than twenty posts that are actually relevant to the OP.

    So address the topic of the OP, or like I said...find another thread.

    Are you beginning to get the "point?"



    God bless.
     
    #55 Darrell C, May 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2015
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Warning. Warning! Danger Ahead!

    Scrub Darby from your vocabulary. Sort of like the prophet Mohammed, mention his name without proper reverence and suffer the consequences. And whatever you do don't post a picture of him or disparage his role in the pre-trib movement!

    Walvoord, Ryrie, Chafer, Scofield, no one pays attention.
     
    #56 OldRegular, May 5, 2015
  17. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Will you scrub these too:

    "Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) "was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

    In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just."

    let's check another:

    "Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

    In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

    “We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

    And another:

    "Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. The book Pseudo Ephraim was one of his still existing works. It was called “Pseudo” because of later dispute over authorship. However the book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:

    In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:

    “We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time."
     
    #57 revmwc, May 5, 2015
  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    It's just that some of us do not need to rely on commentaries in order to understand Scripture.

    Now, if we could just convince those of Catholic tradition to stop relying so heavily on men...


    God bless.
     
    #58 Darrell C, May 6, 2015
  19. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Only...when it is convenient, and supports the theological system created through cherry-picking commentaries that support what he wants to believe.


    God bless.
     
    #59 Darrell C, May 6, 2015
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