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How should calvinism affect politics?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by El_Guero, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    How should calvinism affect politics?
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    What do you mean?:confused:
     
  3. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    It shouldn't. It is a lose lose religious hacking of the work of God, that does much to discourage evangelism and little to feed the sheep.
     
  4. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Calvinists expect to be around for awhile and therefore want this world to be a better place for their grandkids as opposed to Dispensationalists who are waiting to "get raptured" and are happy when evil increases because evil expedites the "rapture."
     
  5. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Ya, thats it. All non-calvinists want evil to thrive and dont love their children and grandchildren. We dont want a better place for our kids to live. You hit the nail on the head.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I agree. Otherwise you would not selfishly hold on to your own evil free will choices that would doom everyone to hell (Romans 3).

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    I forgot to mention that they also hate puppies, ice cream, apple pie and sunny days.
     
  8. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    How could my choices and beliefs doom anybody to Hell. I thought the people who were going to Hell were predestened to it from all time.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    If your Arminian free will doctrine is true, everyone is doomed to Hell according to Romans 3.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    I am not Arminian or Calivnist. The Truth lies somewhere outside of both man made doctirns. And I suspect it is also outside of our limited understanding. I will wait and ask the Lord when I get there.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    If you are not a Calvinist, then you are at the very least, a one point Arminian as the five points of Calvinism were a direct refutation of the five points of Arminianism. Perhaps you don't know you are an Arminian, but you are. There is no middle ground between right and wrong.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    I guess unless both C and A are partly wrong. I fall where I believe the majority of Baptists fall and if you must have a lable it would be 3 maybe 4 point Calvinist.

    I personaly dont need a lable or a name for my doctirne. I believe what I read in the Bible no matter if there is a preachers name endorsing it or not. I also understand that I do not have every doctrin correct so I leave my mind open to be convinsed by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

    I will study trying to understand until I meet the Lord, at that time I will ask him what I got right and wrong.
     
  13. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Besides none of that has anything to do with the OP politics or Billwalds rediculous post where he calims non-calvinsts want evil and dont love there grandchildren.
     
  14. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow New Member

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    I don't see your point.

    Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
    Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    There is nothing in here that supports either Calvinism or Arminianism. It simply says that salvation is by faith not works.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member

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    What salvation is this ? Eternal ? Or temporal.
    If eternal, then whose faith.
    The sinner's faith ? Is the sinner's faith anything that pleases God at all times ?
    If it is the sinner's faith, and the Arminian's doctrine is correct, then God must wait for that nanosecond in time when the Arminian faith is 100% on Him, and the Arminian's trust is 100% on Him, before He can save the sinner, since according to the Arminian, God is not the source of so-called "saving" faith, but man is, and since salvation is a cooperative venture between God and the sinner according to the Arminian's doctrine, God must wait.
    But if you are a KJV person, then you know that your Bible answers that question, it is the faith of Christ that saved the sinner. That is why Christ, not His redeemed, is the only one called Faithful and True.
     
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member

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    And, yes, with all due respects to the OP, this is a ridiculous notion. What on earth does Arminianism or Calvinism have to do with fallen worldly politics ? It is just as ridiculous as not voting for a candidate because he is gay, or has mistresses or "gentlemen" on the side, or a proponent of abortion, even if his track record in governance is sterling.

    Don't get me wrong, I do not condone in any way these things mentioned, but sometimes we need to differentiate between the glorious kingdom of God (which is not of this world) and the fallen kingdom of men.
     
  17. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Not sure I can agree with the above statement. We are required to study God's Word and seek out the truth. Several of the "points" of "Calvinism" are directly stated in the Word of God. Think of John 6:37-39. In that verse alone we see irresistible grace (vs37a) and the perseverence of the saints (vs39). Election can be seen in that verse as well (vs37a) but also in John 10, Eph 1, and other verses. Total depravity can be seen in Romans 3 (etc). So at least four of the five points of Calvinism are Biblical. Everyone is either a Calvinist or Arminian, some people just refuse to admit it. You may not be a five poitn Calvinist, or a complete Arminian, but you will fall into one of the two camps.

    Should Calvinism affect government? No....next question.
     
  18. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
    Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    "There is nothing in here that supports either Calvinism or Arminianism. It simply says that salvation is by faith not works."

    This is not an exclusive statement. It does not prohibit God fron saving people bi fiat.
     
  19. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Martin, You do a great job of pointing out Calv points in the Bible. I bet you can point out just as many verses that are non-calv. Now you may explain them away and redefine terms. You may be comfortable doing that however I am not. World means world and whosoever means just that to me. If I could redefine words like that I would still be LDS. Like I say both sides have valid points with just as many scriptures to back them up.

    The truth must be somewhere in the middle. I believe that God wants us to follow Him on our own choice. And yes I believe that Gods Holy Spirit gives us the faith that makes it possable to choose Him. But I will never believe that that option is limited to only a few select people. All people are given what is nessessary to come to salvation.
     
  20. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

    That's so blindly ridiculous it's funny.

    To the OP, one's faith should instruct one's every action. Thus if I am a Reformed Christian, I look for candidates which reflect the things important to that point of view.
     
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