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How to read the AV 1611

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Squire Robertsson, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    like it was read c. 1611.

     
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  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I watched and listened to the entire video. It was neat. I have respected David Cr ystal for some time. He has been quoted by some of my favorite authors. I liked his son Ben in the video. They really are bringing back the original pronunciation at the turn of the 17th century.

    I will quote from Bill Bryson's Mother T ongue

    "Rhymes tell us much. We know from Shakespeare's rhymes that knees, grease, grass, and grace all rhymed (at least more or less) and that clean rhymed with lane. (The modern pronunciation was evidently in use but considered substandard.) Shakespeare also made puns suggesting a similar pronunciation between food and ford and between reason and raising. The k in words like knight and knave was still sounded in Shakespeare's day.."(p.87)

    "Originally -th verbs were pronounced as spelled. But for a generation or two during the period from (roughly) 1600 to 1650 they became pronounced as if spelled in the modern way, even when the spelling was unaltered. So, for example, when Oliver Cromwell saw hath or chooseth, he almost certainly read them as 'has' or 'chooses' despite their spellings. Only later did the spellings catch up." (p.90)

    "The 104 pilgrims who sailed from Plymouth in 1620 were among the first generation of people to use the s form on verbs, saying has rather than hath, runs rather than runneth. Simililarly, thee and thou pronoun forms were dying out." (p.154)

    And I have read elsewhere that 'ye' gradually became commonly pronounced as you.
     
    #3 Rippon, Feb 17, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    KJVOs often point out that English has "deterioriated"(in THEIR opinions) cuz it's dropped the common use of "thee", "ye", etc. but these changes came about thru the use of BILLIONS of English-users over the last 400 years, and it was GOD who caused/allowed the changes. But then, KJVOs are always scratching for any excuse to try to lend some credence to their man-made myth.
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Nope. The 2nd person singular/plural personal pronouns "thee" and "thou" and "ye" (and the possessives "thy" and "thine") did not morph over the past 400 years into the generic "you."

    They are relics of Middle English (1100-1500) that were deliberately carried into Modern English in the KJV in order to allow the reader to differentiate between the singular and plural and nominative and objective use of the pronouns.

    This can be seen simply by reading "To The Reader" and notice that, except when quoting the Geneva Bible there is nary a "thee" or a "thou" or a "ye." :)
     
  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Huh?

     
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