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Featured How to Sound Like a Bibliology Scholar

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again he seems to have totally missed the point. And then tries to claim the Holy Spirit is on his side but, by implication, not on the side of good and godly men who bothered to learn what they were talking about before they started talking? Now that is funny!
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    That statement of fact is taken from scripture. As a well studied student, John, I am sure you have pondered whether the Spirit's message had an application for those engaged in disparaging others.
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Please stop. You're killin' me! :p

    Simply because you looked up one course on the Internet does not mean you know anything about the course with the same title anywhere else. I guarantee you, the course at our college (I don't teach it) is quite different from the ABWE pre-field course that you referenced.

    Some "Methods of Bible Study" courses are simply hermeneutics courses. Ours is not. The student would learn such methods as the DBS method, word studies, etc. The hermeneutics course is taught by my son, and is a different class altogether.
    I am a "Big F" Fundamentalist, and would not recommend nor send students to a school with even one New Evangelical, much less even one modernist.

    Now, I realize the situation is different in Great Britain, but students here do not have to simply read theology books and study under a pastor. We have many good schools to recommend without a single modernist or New Evangelical on the faculty.

    On the other hand, I just received 3 emails from the pastor I have been mentoring and teaching for years in Japan. He is almost ready for the test on my course in Daniel. The mission fields of the world have fewer good schools, so the mentoring method you mention here is often used around the world.
    Not in the circles I run in. I can name a dozen schools right now I could recommend students to, with nary a modernist on any of the faculties.
    You have a wonderful gift for stating the glaringly obvious. :Geek
     
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  4. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Obviously this forum, & this thread prove what you say, but can we 'blame' the Holy Spirit? John's immediate reply referred to prophetic interpretation. What areas of doctrine rather than areas of interpretation or practice could be used as examples of your assertion?

    Differences in practice include the mode of baptism, styles of worship, church leadership, vegetarianism, tithing, even the use of the Internet.

    We would add Covenant theology with its focus on the new covenant in Christ for all believers regardless of ethnicity, which contrasts with the dispensationalism that sees national/ethnic Israel as focus for God's dealings with man, particularly in a future millennium.

    Covenant theology applies prophecy to Christ & his church in the present "amillennium", rather to a restored national Israel in a future millennium.
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    This thread is starting to wander from the OP, which is about Bibliology. So, let me be clear about what doctrines are included in Bibliology, which is a quite wide topic.

    1. Revelation. This is the doctrine that God communicates His truth to us in two ways: general (or natural) revelation (nature) and special revelation (the Bible)
    2. Inspiration. This is the doctrine of precisely how God reveals himself through the written revelation.
    3. Preservation. This is the doctrine of how God and man keep God's written revelation from being lost. I include the difficult and specialized field of textual criticism here. I also include the doctrine of Bible translation here. (And yes, I teach it as a doctrine, not just practice.) The study of the canon would also come under this point.
    4. Illumination. This is the doctrine of how the Holy Spirit guides us "into all truth" in the Bible.
    5. Hermeneutics. This is the doctrine of how to interpret the Word of God.

    Now, please, don't sidetrack the thread into eschatology and other fields. This thread is specifically about Bibliology "wannabes," those who look for ways to make others think they are experts in Bibliology. In particular, I have referenced the "translator" of the Eth-Cepher "Bible" (which adds much to the Word of God). If someone then wishes to apply the lessons of this thread to themselves--so be it. :) But please don't hijack the thread into eschatology or other doctrines.
     
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  6. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I don't think points 1-3 generate much controversial discussion on this forum, though of course, they are of extreme importance to the church & Gospel witness.

    Illumination & hermeneutics should generate profitable discussion. I don't propose to study Pidgeon's Eth-Cepher Bible. Your non-recommendation is fair warning. There are many who use generally accepted translations to teach error. Health & wealth teachers & cults are examples.

    So,
    4. how does the Holy Spirit guide us "into all truth" in the Bible?
    and
    5. how should we interpret the Word of God?

    I would suggest that 4 is effected by Bible study & teaching & preaching, including discussion with others, privately, in church & in college. Our objective should be to be equipped to teach the truth.

    Hopefully 5 overlaps with 4, so that as we are guided into all truth we learn to recognise Scriptures that need interpretation, & interpret consistently with the truth we learned from the Holy Spirit's guidance.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That was my first study bible, as it was Lindsell bible with that translation!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There seems to be a common thread among those who are acting the way your OP stated...
    Accept KJVO position
    Accept Strongs/Thayers/basically older reference works
    Have little regards for theological education
    Seem to think that the Holy Spirit illumination is about all that is needed
    Are ignorant to large extent on areas such as systematic/historical/biblical theologies
     
    #68 Yeshua1, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The problem here seems to be though that some view those who have add that higher education have gotten away from they see as just relying upon the Holy Spirit!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Well, at least his group would have better understanding of how to understand prophecy than yous did!
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Some of the most spiritual people I've ever known have been scholars. Holy Spirit reliance has nothing to do with education or ignorance. The fact that some have brought it up on this thread is completely irrelevant.

    If we stray from a correct Bibliology, it's all over. If one doesn't believe in verbal inspiration, they go liberal or neo-orthodox. If one doesn't believe in the inspiration of the originals over the translation, they can go Ruckmanite. If one doesn't have the Biblical view of revelation, one can become Charismatic. Bibliology is foundational.
     
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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    1. Content – observe the details of the passage

    2. Context – know what comes before and after the passage

    3. Comparison – compare to other passages

    4. Culture – know the cultural context of the passage

    5. Consultation – consult what others have said about the passage
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Indeed it is, as without the firm foundation of the scriptures, we are being tossed to and fro, as in those various bad ways that you listed here!
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The body of Christ is riddled with divisions. So lets focus in on Baptists, because we have large areas of agreement. Most Baptists of dispensationalists, traditional or progressive. Here the problem is driven by ambiguity, or reading differing speculations into the text. It takes discipline to stick with what the word clearly says, rather than what it might be saying.

    And of course we have the my version is the only version, which causes hindrance to the ministry of Christ. I remember teaching boys in AWANA to memorize the KJV and they could repeat the verse word for word, but were clueless as to the meaning.

    [Off topic comment edited]
     
    #74 Van, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    As I said in the other thread, stay on topic or I will delete posts without warning. Do NOT try to make this into a Cal/Arm debate. That is not the intent of the OP and will not be tolerated.
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Hmm...
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Hmm... again.
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Huh?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His prophecy view was preitierist, and was just stating that John of japan group would have the students learn prophecy in a more biblical fashion!
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It is in the field of Bible translation that we find the most would be Bibliology experts. Joe Schmoe of Podunk Baptist Church writes an "authoritative" pamphlet or book on the KJV. George Wannabe posts all over the Internet either for or against dynamic equivalence without ever reading a book by Eugene Nida.

    I am reminded of the guy down in the Kanto Plain who wanted to help with our Japanese New Testament translation. So, we had a phone conversation. "Do you know Greek?" I asked. Nope. "Do you speak Japanese?" I asked. Nope.

    I tried again. "Well, you can contribute financially by sending a check to my mission board." He answered, "I don't believe in mission boards." Then he seemed insulted that there were no aspects of our translation he could help with!

    He found a Japanese would be translator who he said was doing a version of John. "Great," I said, "Send me a sample." Never got that. This was as pure a translation wannabe as I've ever known personally, though Eugene Nida once had a guy write him saying he would like to do a tribal translation. "Just send me a dictionary and a grammar, and I'll get started," the dude said. As if!! :Laugh :Rolleyes
     
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