How to tell whether you are chosen

He is meaning those who know the law are just as bad as those who don't. We all like sheep are the Christians. We are Israel. We are the stiff-necked ones! As He speaks to Israel He speaks to the Church!
He is not speaking of non-Christians but He addresses us. We all like sheep have gone astray.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]So the author of Psalms, whom we know to be David, is speaking to us, the church? Can you show the direct connection between psalm 14 and the modern day church? Or any evidence that David even knew there would be such a thing as "the 21st century church"? Don't you realize that under the old covenant of law, things were different than they are under the new covenant of grace? We don't have a priesthood, we are the priesthood.

 

Thanks for the bible lesson James, for over 50 years of reading the bible, I must have missed that simple little lesson. NOT!

 

In the words of outinleftfield Wes, I think you owe James an apology.

Actually I am even more amazed at your conduct if you have been reading the bible for over 50 years...

 

Hello Wes.

I didn't know that God's first name was David! David Yahweh is it? God is always speaking to His Children.

RO 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written:... RO 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Direct enough?

Nothing is ever different. The law was added so that the trespass might increase... Romans 5:20

This is interesting but first, since God Authored the bible then I would say He knew about "the 21st century church".
James was speaking a couple of posts back about how they thought of God. ...we would think it was God the Father... I think they knew who Christ was and that it would be His Son! I don't know really but there are indicators.
PR 30:4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

JOB 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; That's strong evidence for the Church to have always known the truth. The "Let Us make make..." is a dead give away right at the beginning. And the rebuke given to some in the NT by Jesus shows they should have known. LK 24:25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

JN 3:10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?

HEB 7:1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace." 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

That just came to mind as I was reading the stuff that James wrote. That was a very good question he asked Wes. Did you see it? His 1 to seven and where do you place the "No one seeks." Did you answer it? Where do you think it goes?

john.

 

Your implication?

 

Presuming as you say that God authored the bible, did he say this about himself?

When is God's funeral?

 

yer got me Wes boy!

john.

 

wes,

I in no way did not mean to talk down to you. I brought this up for you had said that psalms did NOT mean as paul had said. You said it..so i thought you didn't know or understand that indeed OT and NT do agree on the message. if you do know...why not just say it?

now you want to fight with john over another word.

are you sure you are in your 60s wes? sometimes you act like a school kid. Maybe that sounds mean....but really wes...you should back off and see the way you act. but that's ok...i have seen so much of it...its kinda funny now.

well...anyway...have a good day

and wes...BTW...i love ya man...in the Lord.

In Christ...james

 

Your implication? </font>[/QUOTE]No implication whatsoever Wes. The fact is you were extremely rude to him and it was even worse if you have been reading the Bible for 50 years. I think you owe him an apology...but that ain't gonna happen is it? No...you just like to sit there and tell me that I need to apologize to someone. Well...I do. I need to apologize to you for taking the time and effort to discuss anything with you. I am sorry.

 

Well you obviously missed the fact that he was putting me down by raising himself up in regards to his secondary education. I am not lacking in education, I simply learned different languages, and technologies than he.

Regarding scripture, there have literally been thousands and thousands of skilled translators of the ancient languages. It is seriously doubtful that any new discoveries will manifest themselves. However, it is quite possible that modern translations will result in different meanings thus corrupting the longstanding truth of scripture.

Apology accepted!

 

Jarthur001,

Seems to me that Paul, in using David's words, is describing the condition of all mankind who are under the LAW, just as David was, and not the church! In describing the condition of mankind in general, Paul is setting the scene for his discussion of faith and what it does. This description of mankind under the law ends at Romans 3:20. See Romans 3:21-31 for the "what faith does" part. Pay particular attention to vs 26 as it deals with "the present age" the age of grace and clearly states what and whom Jesus does something to and what it is that he does, and what the qualification IN THE recipient must be!

When you take a scripture out of its context, you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean. But in it's context it says something quite different.

 

JArthur, I don't think David was speaking to the Church. Really...in the Psalms he is speaking to God. They are included in Scripture for our benefit but he was not speaking to us I believe.

 

hi ya King,

You are so right if you use that last statement as it stands. When johnp said.....

"As He speaks to Israel He speaks to the Church!"

I felt he meant the "Church age"..but had dropped the word "age" for this was the subject at hand.

When wes replied...........

"So the author of Psalms, whom we know to be David, is speaking to us, the church?"

i again thought this was still on the same subject as before...does romans 3 apply to us..in the "church age" or not? for that was the subject all along.

when i replied the next time to wes....
i considered he also had dropped the word "age"..from the phrase "church age"...and answered YES

i also went on and added "age" back to "church age".later in my reply, to show it was the subject.

so..back to what you said....no it is not to the church it self.

yes it is for those in the church age...
this is what john meant...
and from wes answer..following john statement...this is what wes meant.

that is where we started..." does this apply to us for it comes from the OT"

john says yes..to the church age
i say yes...to the church age
wes says............

 

Cool, Jarthur.

"john says yes..to the church age
i say yes...to the church age
wes says............" CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT...PAY ATTENTION!!! GRRRRR!!! ARGH!!!! KEEP NOTES!!!!

 

the theme of romans is..the gospel
...or "righteousness is revealed"..as from God

Lets get the flow of romans and see for sure

you read and see if this fits.

I ) 1: 1-17..Introdution

II ) Gods righteousness revealed in condemnation 1:18-3:20

...A) Condemnation..against pagans 1:18-32

1. reasons for 1:18-23
2.results of 1:24-32

...B Condemnation according to divine standards 2:1-16

1. truthfulness 2:1-4
2. impartiality 2:5-11
3. Jesus Christ 2:12-16

...C Condemnation against unfaithful jews 2:17 - 3:8

1. Condemnation by hypocrisy 2:17-24
2. Condemnation by them trusting in rites 2:25-29
3. Condemnation for unbelief 3:1-8


****************************************
i say..this is the context and how we get to the passage
maybe you do not...but this is how it reads to me

so....now notice where this next part starts...9

9 says...both greek and jews....and then the rest follows


...D Condemnation against all humans 3: 9-20

1. all are under sin 3:9-18
2. all are conscious of sin 3:19-20

end if part one...

the next part is Justifiction/ 3:21-5:21
then sanctification / chapters 6-8
next is sovereign choice of god..or election / chapters 9-11

last is trasformation..12:1-15:13

then the closing


In Christ...James

 

well king...wes and i see things dif.
anyone can see that. however i have more respect for that then the ones that run from words and change subject.

many in this debate always change the subject when faced with a text that they can't deal with

...wes has dealt with it...and not over looked it...so that says something.

King...you are one of just a FEW on here that brings up points...but does not do it in a mean way. You have always been kind to me...and i know we do not agree on all things.

wes would be ok..if he chills his thoughts alittle. I have got caught up in this debate a few times myself..where i had to come back later and say...i'm sorry for acting like a dodo bird. but it is easy to do sometimes...we all have that sin nature.

there is one subject i do not agree with calvin on. I have started to post my views many times on this forum. I never send what i write....for as i write it...my view is weak.

at some point i need to face this myself...DEAL with it. if i do not have bible reason to hold on to my last strong hold that lives in me from my up bringing in arminianism...then i must give it up too.

again...i have not posted on this..for each time...the words i write are MY thoughts..and not found in the Bible...and are weak at that

pray that i will find the truth as i keep looking. i want more then anything to be right with God...and if this means changing my thoughts..i will

In Christ...James

 

Excellent post James.

 

How do you mean "apply", are you saying that every numbered verse is a separate doctrinal statement? If you will look at Paul's letter to the Romans you will see that he is in a teaching mode. Whether or not Romans 3 applies, depends, whether or not you are trying to support a particular doctrine...as it seems you are.

From the team of 27 collaborating Translators of the New Jerusalem Bible, including J.R.R. Tolkien,

The PLAN of the LETTER
Salvation by Faith 1:16
I Justification 1:16
A The Retribution of God against Gentile and Jew 1:18, 3:20
B Faith and the Judgment of God 3:21\31
C The Example of Abraham
II Salvation 5
A Deliverance from Sin, Death and Law 5:12
B The Christian's Spiritual Life 8
C The Place of Israel 9
Exhortation 12:1, 15:13
Epilogue 15:14, 16:27