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How would you answer this?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by grahame, Jan 11, 2007.

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  1. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here.
    If someone should say to you. Now this is a typical atheist question. They love to dwell on Abraham's "blood lust" (as they put it) with sacrificing his son to God. They use the word "son" and not "only son" so they can also include Islam and Judaism. So here's the question:
    If God suddenly appeared to you and commanded you to sacrifice your son to Him, would you do it?
    Now you must ignore the fact that God stayed the hand of Abraham, because Abraham was also ignorant of this fact. Do not avoid the question, the man said. Would you take up a knife and slay your son?
    He doesn't ask this question in a vacuum. He gives examples of religious mothers who have committed infanticide. His reason for asking is that he thinks that Abraham was just a child murderer. But leaving out the motive for him asking the question. How would you answer the person who asks that kind of question?
     
    #1 grahame, Jan 11, 2007
  2. Baptist Bible Believer

    Baptist Bible Believer New Member

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    Abraham did not sacrifice his son - so it is a mute point. Since GOD no longer is communicating new revelation - He would not appear to me with such a command - and if there was such an apparition we know that it is from the "angel of light" and the "father of lies."

    Romans 1 says that the Atheist already knows in his heart the truth about GOD and has chosen to suppress it - so they are without excuse and their silly questions are but smoke screens.

    By the way, Hebrews shows us that Abraham did not believe that if he killed his son - that he would stay dead - because he fully believed that GOD would raise him up again.

    "by faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac; and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, that in Isaac shall thy seed be called; Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure" (vss. 17-19)

    Our job is to give them the Gospel - and leave the results with the HOLY SPIRIT to bring about the conviction. Our arguments are not going to avail to convince the natural man - as the old German proverb goes, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"
     
    #2 Baptist Bible Believer, Jan 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2007
  3. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    How can one be a murderer if one never murdered?

    I'd answer it by reading the passage to him, as well as the passage in Hebrews mentioned above. If he doesn't want to hear it, then tell him no matter how you answer the question, he's already made up his mind and is unwilling to hear anything different.
     
    #3 Don, Jan 11, 2007
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker New Member

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    You cannot take Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac out of its proper context. The information from Hebrews that Abraham fully expected his son to rise again and the idea that Abraham thought Isaac was the promised redeemer are just parts of that context.

    Remember God had appeared to Abraham previously on several occasions. God had walked with him and talked with him. Isaac himself was a miracle. Don’t forget that Abraham was 100 years old and Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born. Abraham knew God on a physical personal level and was witness to his power and miracles BEFORE God asked him to sacrifice Isaac.

    So I would simply turn the question around. Instead of asking

    I would ask,
     
    #4 North Carolina Tentmaker, Jan 11, 2007
  5. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Thank you Mr Tentmaker. That would be a very good way to approach the question. Our Lord often turned things around on his hearers and I was trying to think of a way to do it with this character. Atheists are usually full of pride and need to be humbled. I pray that God will do this with this man. I usually try to answer people from the scriptures. When unbelievers quote scripture they often not only take things out of context, but also quote just the portions they like to pick holes in.
     
    #5 grahame, Jan 11, 2007
  6. DQuixote

    DQuixote New Member

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    God isn't going to appear to anyone to ask for a son's sacrifice. It's a ridiculous question. Abraham's event was a type of God's sacrifice of his son at the cross. It is utterly ignorant to think, to even speculate, that it is going to happen again.
     
    #6 DQuixote, Jan 17, 2007
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  7. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Tentmaker was on target there. In Genesis 15, God is NOT promising Abraham many progeny. Paul makes that very clear in Galatians 3. The reference in Genesis 15 is to Seed, not seeds. This, Paul explains, refers to Christ. The promise in Genesis 15 is that the Christ will come from Abraham or his line.

    Abraham later fathers Isaac, the child of the Promise. At least that is what he thinks Isaac to be.

    Thus, when they leave their servants and donkeys behind to go up the mountain, Abraham tells the servants to wait their while "we" go up and then "we" will return. He seemed to fully expect Isaac to be resurrected as the Savior, as he knew the Savior would come from his own line.

    Since the Savior has now already come, any idea that God would ask anyone to sacrifice his or her child is nonsense and heretical. Even Abraham would not have been able to do it had God not already told him the Redeemer would be from his line.
     
    #7 Helen, Jan 17, 2007
  8. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    I know that and you know that. But this is how these people think. To say to him that it is a rediculous question, he would just say, "You are avoiding the question". One can see his point. But in a way it is not such a rediculous question when put into the context of faith.
    Our Lord asked some equally challenging things of people remember. For instance the rich man. Our Lord told him if he was to follow him then he was to go, sell all that he had and to follow him. How many of us would rise to such a challenge. Also he said that if we love father, mother, brother, sister more than him, we are not worthy of him. So even leaving out the father sacrificing son bit, the challenge is still there. But even then the Lord may ask you to sacrifice your son in other ways. Just think on it for a bit and you'll know what I mean. Remember the words of our Lord to the Jews?
    Those words in and of themselves, though not of course telling us to take a knife to our son's throat, nevertheless are still very challenging and ought to cause us to examine ourselves in the light of them.
     
    #8 grahame, Jan 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  9. Citizen

    Citizen New Member

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    I'm going to give you an answer that you probably aren't prepared to hear.

    Stop debating God's Word with atheists. The Bible is very clear that nonbelievers do not contain a Spirit of Truth. They haven't been called to God (yet) and God can't use you to call them if you're arguing with them about something that they can never hope to understand on their own.
     
    #9 Citizen, Jan 18, 2007
  10. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    For one thing, I am not debating God's word with atheists. In fact I haven't even answered him. The debate is here amongst God's people.
    Secondly, although they (unbelievers) cannot understand God's word. Nevertheless who are we to say they haven't been called to God? Does not God's word remind us to remember that we were in the same condition as they in our unbelieving days? And does it not remind us that we too were dead in trespasses and sins? And that we are who we are by the grace of God alone? And are we not told to
    Lastly, none of us can hope to understand these deep spiritual truths on our own. Indeed none of us have ever any hope of understanding anything without the Spirit of God. We must be careful that we do not fall into that kind of hyper Calvinism that has ceased to reason with those who are just as much in need of salvation as we are. We are reasonable creatures with minds and consciences and God the Holy Spirit uses all these powers in the conversion of the lost. Indeed we are called to show love towards them and not just clam up just because we have some notion that we are the only ones who are called to understand God's word.
     
    #10 grahame, Jan 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  11. Citizen

    Citizen New Member

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    There is a difference between having an answer ready and then subjecting that answer to their judgement by arguing and debating it or attempting to prove it.

    No, an atheist can not understand God's word. Sure, they can ask a question and yes, you should give an answer. The problem comes however when you attempt to "prove" the answer. Jesus didn't prove the Gospel by debates or arguing, He proved it by good works.

    But debating the Word with an atheist, you are submitting your answers to the atheist's judgement.
     
    #11 Citizen, Jan 18, 2007
  12. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Ok citizen. Please take another look at my question.
    Now. Do you have anything constructive to say? I never said that I was entering into debate with him. On the contrary I stressed that I did not do so. All I asked was "how do I answer him". Well? how would you answer him? For I know that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But the wisdom lies in how we present that word to the unbeliever. Please let me hear your wisdom.
     
    #12 grahame, Jan 18, 2007
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