Featured How would you handle Josh Duggar if he were a member of your church?

As far as blaming his upbringing . . . might as well blame Judaism for the rape of Tamar.

 

You're right, of course. I would hope his church is helping him change some wrong habits he has developed.

This is such a sad situation.

 

I haven't kept up with the every part of the story, and really don't want too.

However, I do have one question.

It is my understanding that Josh was like 14-15 when he inappropriately touched his sisters (touched their breasts). It is my understanding that he did not have (in the words of Bill "sexual relations with that woman."

Question: Was that really molestation of the girls?

Sure, he needed correction, and he needed someone to explain that there are certain boundaries preteens cross that teens do not. He needed watched over more carefully to make certain that he had gained person wisdom and had developed personal boundary and accountability standards. Others in the family would also be aware of the same weakness could certainly attach itself to any of them if they were not all on guard of every thought and bring every part of themselves under the domination of the Holy Spirit.

Where the ball was dropped was Josh not learning that the contact was not only inappropriate but was the first seed of lust - when it conceived it grows into sin.

One other thought about this matter - perhaps for another thread.

Is the current thinking and legal system of laws exceeding the Biblical standard of conduct in these matters?

Is it possible that the crime and punishment exceed what that of what the Scriptures would indicate?

For instance, man meets maid. Rapes her. She doesn't cry out.

What is the Biblical response that the society should have toward that situation in comparison to what is actually happening not only with Josh, but say Bill Cosby?

I am NOT condoning sexual sin!!!!

I am questioning the value placed upon the standard in relationship to that of the Scriptures. Is society making a crime of what the Scriptures do not?

 

I do agree they are not responsible for his sins, they are his and his alone. but I would say that if they did know of this problem and did not get him the help, then they are apart of the same sin.
I do also agree it should have been dealt with through the legal system. It was a crime.

 

It is my understanding the situation (as a young teen) was dealt with by the legal system.

They concluded it was not a crime.

 

I totally agree that when someone repents of sin they do not lose church membership. I don't, however, believe that tears and saying I'm sorry are the same as repentance. I remember the Master taught of two sons told by their father to go work in the fields. One said he would go but did not. The other said he would not go but did. Jesus asked which was really obedient.

For the moment, Josh has been outed as a long term lifestyle of deception, outright lies, and sexual misconduct. He says he is sorry and won't do it again, and then he does it again. No one can bring forth fruit meet for repentance over night. It will take time to know if he is truly repentant or not.

I do not believe church membership is necessary to salvation, and do believe one can be right with the Lord and still face church discipline. A member is an ambassador not only for Christ but for the local church. No church needs someone doing these things as an ambassador for them.

What took place when Josh was a teen wasn't likely to be seen as arrest worthy not because what he did was not a crime, but because of his age. And according to the reports filed, he did touch more than just breasts through clothing. I don't believe we are elevating to "sin" or "crime" something the Bible ok's. I don't believe his current sin is Anna's fault, either.

I have a son who is certified mentally ill. I do believe brain disease exists and for it medical treatment is a good idea. Character defects, sin, and bad behavior are not necessarily mental illness or brain driven. We went the psychology route and when you learn what the core beliefs behind much talk therapy is, well, as a Christian I simply would not go that route. Never again. BTDT and got the tee shirt to prove it, so to speak. Hogwash, unbiblical hogwash, was all we encountered for youthful sex offenders.

There simply is not a quick fix for Josh. And there is very high likelihood he will continue to cheat, and continue to molest. It is a very sad situation, and likely nothing the Duggars or the law could or can do will change him.

God, on the other hand, can change people. And when He does, people don't keep walking the edge of disaster. Child molesters changed by God seek to avoid kids like the plague. Adulterers changed by God flee the internet, flee situations where they can even be tempted again, and impose far more strictures on themselves than friends and family or the law ever would.

All we need to do is pray for the whole family, and prayerfully wait to see. If Josh has truly repented it will show. If not, he can be sure given his celebrity status once again his sins will find him out.

In the case of our youthful offender, despite his tears and repentance he continued to act out, just as far as we know no longer toward children. Still, he is not welcome around the grandkids, including his own child. That child's mama had some hard decisions to make regarding our son's continued lying and cheating.

As Jim Bob Duggar is reported to have told his girls, forgiveness can come quickly, but trust has to be earned.

 

Which is why I started the post with that statement.

Taking your statement as presenting the facts (which I do not contest), seems to me he needed some public school sex education classes.

There is a difference between curiosity and the seed germination of lust. I am surprised his parents didn't spend time with him in this matter (pre-teen) and make a sharp distinction in what was appropriate and what was inappropriate. However, I am certain that just as most parents do not express these things with the children, the whole discussion that should have taken place a number of times BEFORE children start puberty, never really took place.

This is parental unit failure.

They had to stop Josh?????

What was wrong with Josh stopping Josh????

At this point, the parental unit did not fulfill the responsibility of security, love, and nourishment for every member of the family.

I agree. This is why talk about all areas of the body, function, pleasures, pain, ... need to take place from the time the child is very young.

In my opinion, the self exploration that naturally occurs in a child is also the time when the enemy begins to plant seeds. The exploration is not a sin in itself, the sense of pleasure with the stimulus that later becomes hormonal inspired in puberty can sprout all manner of seedlings. There are many who battle sensual addiction that may have never had to face the problem if they had been given the proper tools of understanding and warning as a wee little child.

"Son, that part of the body responds to changes of temperature, touch, and your feelings like joy, being scared..." However, you will need to learn to control that part of the body just as you control where a ball is thrown or your temper..." You learn how to throw the ball accurately by practice. You learn how to control your temper by practicing. You learn to control every part of your heart, mind and body by practicing - that is called self control."

That message should be ringing in the mind of every child before they are five years old.

You gave the answer to your question in the button left (above).

The man "lay(s) hold of her." She didn't lay hold of him. It doesn't say she was a willing victim.

For you to say he didn't force or rape, is (in my opinion) wrong. Had the man not "lay hold on her" she would have remained a virgin.

In my opinion, it is just as important for the young males of preadolescence all the way through adult hood to be taught practical lessons on why "it is good for a man not to touch a woman."

When puberty starts - it is already too late.

There is no way that I am defending what the Joshua did!

As a side, I am also asking if our society has expectations and laws that exceed that of the Scriptures - not just in this one instance.