Human Nature versus Sinful nature

no, if the Greek word translated "sin" can be used in the sense which you use it then the greek experts would certainly be aware of that meaning.

Let us look at what you say about those verses;

How can you say that the following verses are referring to the "literal flesh"?

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death" (Ro.7:5).

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Ro.8:9).

If Paul is speaking of the "literal flesh" at Romans 8:9 then perhaps you can tell me how it was possible that those to whom his words were addressed were "not in the flesh" or not in a "literal" body?

 

Paul said "it is sin that dwells in me."
Whether you believe the Word or not is up to you. But sin dwells in believers and must be confessed.
1John 1:9 states that we must confess our sin.

What is sin? Sin has many definitions and takes many forms.
One definition is that it is an attitude of rebellion against God.
That being so, it definitely resides in you. Jesus taught that all sin comes from within, from the heart, and defiles the man. He said: murder, fornication, adultery, thefts, these come from within, from the heart. It was not the things that defiled a man by unwashen hands from without that made a man unclean, but the things that were already within the heart, residing within that made him unclean. Sin resides within.

Jesus taught on the sermon on the mount that it was not the actual act of murder only that was the transgression of the command. But the one that got angry with his brother also committed murder. Why? Because it is conceived in the heart, just like adultery.
He said: "But if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after her, with her already in his heart, he has committed adultery." Sin resides in you. You don't have to physically commit adultery to break the command. You can do it from within. Sin resides within you.

So Paul describes the battle of sin residing in him. He does the things he doesn't want to do, and he doesn't do the things he wants to do. It is sin that dwells in him.
He cries out: "Oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death."
And then the answer comes:

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)
--The battle is in the mind, from within. Sin is conquered with the mind. "Let this mind be in you which also is in Jesus Christ." Submit your mind to the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the only way to conquer the sin that resides within you. Sin always resides within. Sin is rebellion. It is rebellion against God. It is conceived in the heart. Even our secular courts recognize this when the convict a person for premeditated murder.

 

Of course I believe it but I can understand that figurative language is being employed. Let us look at these verses and see if the phrase "the flesh" can be taken literally or not:

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death" (Ro.7:5).

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Ro.8:9).

If Paul is speaking of the "literal flesh" at Romans 8:9 then perhaps you can tell me how it was possible that those to whom his words were addressed were "not in the flesh" or not in a "literal" body?

 

My computer was invented by man. It functions well. It functions according to the information I have put into it. However from time to time someone may feed it malicious malware that will infect it. It may cause great damage. We call them viruses, worms, etc. The same things or words that we term that cause us to get sick. They attack us. They dwell within. But on my computer I have a security system that automatically checks for spyware and other types of malware like viruses.
As long as we keep in the Word and prayer, (our security system) we ought to be able to ward off the spiritual malware that comes our way. Our brain is our complex computer. It is attacked daily. It needs to be guarded. It is guarded by being grounded in the Word, by putting on all the spiritual armor.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2 Corinthians 10:4-5)

 

You go on and on with these things which do nothing to answer my question:

If Paul is speaking of the "literal flesh" at Romans 8:9 then perhaps you can tell me how it was possible that those to whom his words were addressed were "not in the flesh" or not in a "literal" body?

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Ro.8:9).

 

We have already been over this but you cannot seem to understand the simple fact that the "law of sin" is not the same thing as "sin."

So how is it possible to be "not in the flesh" if the words "in the flesh" includes the body?

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Ro.8:9).

If Paul is speaking of the "literal flesh" or the physical body at Romans 8:9 then perhaps you can tell me how it was possible that those to whom his words were addressed were "not in the flesh" or not in a "literal" body?

 

Man is body, soul, and spirit. The mind is soul--the seat of the affections, reason, etc. The spirit is that part of man which can communicate with God. Every man has a spirit, but the spirit is rendered inoperable because of sin. It is separated from God, until the sin problem is taken care of and it is reconciled to God when a person is born again. At that time the Holy Spirit, in some inexplicable way, is united with man's spirit and indwells him. If any man has not this spirit (the Holy Spirit) he is not of God. He is not saved.
Paul was writing to the Christians at Rome. He said "You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit." They had the Spirit of God; they were saved. They needed to yield their fleshly bodies to that Spirit to live victorious Christian lives. If any one of them didn't have that Spirit they were unsaved.

 

Human Nature versus Sinful nature

Question....whats the difference?

 

Jesus had a human nature but not a sin nature.

 

HP: That depends on how one defines a 'sinful nature." We both know Christ had no sin. I say one can have what 'could be denoted as' a 'sinful nature,' yet without sin itself. I personally do not use the term 'sinful nature,' because Scripture does not use it and because of the issue of original sin.

Whatever nature I am born with, Jesus had the same. He was made in all points like unto His brethren. He was tempted in ALL points as we are, yet without sin! Thank the Lord for that!!

 

"In ALL points." So Jesus needed a Saviour??

 

After your comment today about Jerry and myself, I am fully convinced you know far less about my beliefs than you think you do. I will leave you to your confusion for now and await DHK's response. :thumbsup:

 

You are really dense.

If there is no "football" then there can be no "game of football."

But a "game of football" is not the same thing as a "football."

If you are right and the phrase 'in the flesh" INCLUDES THE BODY in any relationship then how do you explain what is said here:

So how is it possible to be "not in the flesh" if the words "in the flesh" includes the body?

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Ro.8:9).

If Paul is speaking of the "literal flesh" or the physical body at Romans 8:9 then perhaps you can tell me how it was possible that those to whom his words were addressed were "not in the flesh" or not in a "literal" body?

When Paul is speaking of the 'flesh" he is not speaking literally. When he is using that term he referring to being self-centered as opposed to being God-centered.

 

In a sense it is both. One who is carnal has given into the lusts of the flesh, the actual senses of the body:

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:15-16)
--The flesh does lust.
--The eyes do lust.
--We do have our pride.
--These things are not of the Father; they are worldly; fleshly; carnal. They are the marks of a carnal Christian. John was addressing Christians here. We sin with our senses, and that includes our actual flesh--adultery is a good example.

Still speaking to the Christian, James, in James 4:4 says that if you are a friend of the world you are the enemy of God, for "friendship of the world is enmity with God."

"Being in the flesh" seems to in contradistinction to being in the Spirit.
If being in the Spirit is saved, then being in the flesh is not saved.
--But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)

But Paul writes to them and says "You are not in the flesh." They were believers. And the rest of the chapter deals with all the benefits we have in Christ as believers in Christ.