Hyper-Preterism

Is this key literal? And how big was that chain? What do you suppose the tensile strength of it must be to fulfill its purpose?

Why should we read verse two with a different hermeneutic than we do for verse one?

 

But these say:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24:34

30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13:30

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21:32

And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3.1-2

From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4.17

And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2.40

And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3:10

But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10:23

Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. This saying therefore went forth among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, that he should not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Jn 21:22- 23

37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23: 34-36

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 26:64

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9:1

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Lu 3:17

Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. I Cor 10.11

Let your forbearance be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Phil 4:5

hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26

who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake, 1 Pet 1:20

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4.7

For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Pet 4:17

5 Wherefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall each man have his praise from God. 1 Cor 4
And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 2 Pet 2.3

Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2: 18

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

Compare with:

(26 And the vision of the evenings and mornings which hath been told is true: but shut thou up the vision; for it belongeth to many days to come. Dan 8
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end. Dan 12)

 

Excellent point.

 

So who were the people who saw Jesus coming in the clouds with power and glory?

 

Did all see Christ when He appeared to Paul, or to Stephen? Only those that He intended to see Him, saw.

'Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.'

I'd say that no Incas or Inuits seen this, but those He intended to did.

 

Good points. And, speaking of "seeing", I've always wondered about this verse, the last one on John 1:

"And He said to him [that is, Nathanael, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”

When exactly did Nathanael see this? Did it already happen - in a literal sense? Is is still to come? Surely not, seeing that there is, at this point, no need for angels to do this.

To me, this is one of the verse that helps me "see" what the Bible means by "see".

 

Heheh, good question Tom, BTW, that one has escaped my attention. Off the cuff, I can't help but wonder if that was maybe in reference to the transfiguration, or maybe even some other incident we're not even told of. Anyway, it's a sure bet that no Aztecs or Irquois seen it.

 

What things must come to pass before that generation which sees them passes away?
Take the full context of the verse not just one verse. The context tells us the generation that shall not pass away until all these things are accomplished:
Matthew 24: 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

These events continiue to occur in our world today. The churche rptured out and then will come the Tribualation.


9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Then comes Jesus at His secind coming to rule and reign on the earth in His Kingdom.

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation that sees the return of the Lord will not pass away until they have seen all fulfilled.

35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

After the reign of Christ for 1000 years

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The unbeliever taken the believer left in both verses.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

We are to be watchful for our Lord's return for His bride the church.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

When Christ returns for His second advent one is taken and condemned for their unbelief the other of that generation is left to enter into His kingdom. So that generation which sahall see these things shall not pass until it has all come to pass.

 

Everything described within the Olivet Discourse, of course.

 

Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.


Matthew 4:
17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

18And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

19And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

20And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

21And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

22And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

25And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.


The King was on the earth, ready to reign on David's throne, had the Jews received Him as their King then the Kingdom was at hand. They rejected the King and the Kingdom at that time. Doesn't change the message the Kingdom was there ready for them, what did they need to do REPENT, did they? The Bible says they rejected the King and therefore the Kingdom at that time. Meaning the om is still yet to come for Israel.

 

What do you gather from these passages?:

The kingdom of God cometh not with observation........

.... Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God

for the kingdom of God is .....righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

My kingdom is not of this world......

 

So now you need to define which Kingdom you are speaking of, the Kingdom of God verses the Kingdom of Heaven verses the Millinial Kingdom on which Christ reigns. I need to be able to get home this evening to delve deeper.

The Kingdom of God is for all Born again Believers.

The Kingdom of Heaven I have to go back can't do it off of the top of my head it has been a while. Top of my head says the Kingdom of Heaven deals with the third heaven, but I have to look a little closer to make sure.

The Millinial Kingdom of which the Jews anticipated the Messiah ruling over and is yet to come.

 

KYRedneck

KYRedneck: I hope you are in a teaching ministry (I mean, besides the one you have here on BB). You're doing a great job.

I had forgotten about Sproul's comments on The Perousia. Thanks for the reminder. I was about half way through Sproul's "The Last Days According to Jesus" when I moved. I've got to find that book and finish it.

Tom and Grasshopper are spectacular as usual.

 

Sounds like John saw it literally, and it is the power and word of God that says it will bind Him.

 

Removed won't sink there

 

that is the Kingdom that was present in the person and ministry of Jesus while he was walking this Earth...
he is the Lord and King over those who are part of His body, the Bride of Christ...

While he was present , the Kingdom was indeed "in their midst"...

So during this present age, the Kingdom is here/not here yet...
Every person born again/saved joins the spiritual Kingdom of jesus he spoke of, but once "Grace period" is over, and Jesus returns as the Judge of all things against God...

Than will the physical aspects of the Kingdom come to pass, as the rightiousness of the Lord will be over entire earth, all nations and peoples will call upon the name of the true God and his Son jesus Christ...

 

My complimenting of some long-time friends inflamed you?

 

No, I don't seem to have one of those handy dandy breakdown charts that gives all the various definitions and explanations of dispensationalism. I've got to go. But, before I go, which 'kingdom' is Acts 15 referring to?:

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After these things I will return, And I will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen; And I will build again the ruins thereof, And I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,
18 Saith the Lord, who maketh these things known from of old.

 

No I was going make a snide remark not an inflamed one thought better of it.

 

Neither do I and I don't have all my notes written in my new bible but I have other things to go back to and find. But that is at home so I have to get back there to find them all.