Hyper-Preterism

Bump.

In all seriousness, I would like to understand the sensationalists' view of 'the kingdom'. I don't have a sensational chart or diagram to go by, so I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how many kingdoms there are and the difference there is between them.

The passage from Acts 15 concerning 'the House of David'. Which kingdom is being referred to here?

 

Isaiah 16:
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Couple with Amos 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets(Isaiah & Amos); as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

The Messiah was to come and sit on the Throne of David. Christ will in the Millinial Kingdom sit on the Throne of David and rule the whole world.


Luke 1: 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

He shall sit on the Throne of His Father David, Jesus has yet to sit on that throne, it says it is everlasting and if you look at the book of Reveleation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Then we see Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Jesus rules 1000 years on the earthly throne of David (Israel) in the Millinial Kingdom and then for eternity in the New Jerusalem, the Eternal Kingdom.

 

14 Symeon hath rehearsed how first God visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After these things I will return, And I will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen; And I will build again the ruins thereof, And I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,
18 Saith the Lord, who maketh these things known from of old. Acts 15

The passage from Acts 15 makes it plain that the incoming of the nations into the Church was in fact the fulfillment of the prophecies concerning the restoration of the kingdom of David. Christ sits on the throne of David NOW.


29 Brethren, I may say unto you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us unto this day.
30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins he would set one upon his throne;
31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. Acts 2

 

Did you get a chance to get home and delve deeper?

How do you explain the fact that the synoptics use the terms 'kingdom of heaven' and 'kingdom of God' interchangeably?

 

As you will see Acts was a quote from Isaiah and Amos that after the Jews had been dispersed not once but twice God would bring them back and the Messiah wouldsit on the earthly throne. Revelation 20 shows the nations of the world coming to Jerusalem to Zion to do homage to the King sitting on Davids throne, this is an earthly kingdom and Christ is not currently sitting on the earthly throne. In factt we are told He is seated at the Fathers right hand.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Verse 21 there is another world yet to come, Revelation 21 tells us of this new world to come. Hebrews 1:10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Chrsit enemies have yet to be made his footstool, Revelation 19 & 20 say He will conquer them and then rule on the earth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Christ has not yet ruled on earth, the Governement of Israel has never rested upon His shoulders, it is yet a future kingdom.

 

Had to run a virus scan on my laptop last night sorry.

 

What I see here is scripture interpreting scripture (you can NEVER go wrong then, unless of course one willfully chooses to reject it as you are now), which makes it plain that the incoming of the Gentiles to the Church was the fulfillment of these promises.

 

The Jews held the same carnal view of scriptures that you have, and rejected the Spirit's interpretation of them as you do.

 

You HAVE to be able to see though in the Bible that there is a partial/full fillment of many of those prophecies concerning Jesus/Isreal/Church/Second Coming etc...

The Kingdom came in person of Jesus, and its aspect is now/not now...

All who receive Him as saviour now are part of His "spritual" aspect of the Kingdom, but when he returns to earth at His second coming, than the physical aspect of His Kingdom will be manifasted...

it would have come IF the jewish nation had accepted their messiah at first coming, it will be ushered him by them accepting Him as messiah at second coming...

World is waiting for that day, when jewish nation/race receive Him as messiah, than all things will become brand new!

the heavens are hold/reserving jesus at this Time, per peter, but at His return to earth, than all things shall be renewed/restored, and than he will usher in the new Age of Him ruling on the earth...

 

Are you looking for a kingdom where all the nations will go to Jerusalem in obedience to the law of Moses, and a kingdom where we Gentiles will have Jews for our masters?

 

Nothing like cutting to the chase:thumbs:

 

I've about decided that JesusFan and revmwc are hyper-Judaized.

 

Nope...

per the Bible, looking for the time when messiah shall rule out from jerusalem, sitting on throne of david...
he will be than King over the Jews, and ruler over all nations...

All nations shall come up to Him and pay their homage to Him at that time...
The Kingdom will finally physically manifasted upon Earth, direct reign/rule of Messiah..

Both jews/Gentiles who were part of the Body of Christ before His second coming will be already glorified and in heavens with the Lord....

jesus will be back upon the earth, and those jews/Gentiles living at that time who came thru Great Tribulation will serve Him...

So its not so much Jewish rulers over gentiles, its that Isreal will have their messiah ruling over them now directly, and all nations and peoples on earth at that time will be blessed by Him being King over restored isreal at that time!

 

Just looking at Scripture that says Christ will rule from Davids throne in jerusalem and all nations will be accountable to Him. Never said they would be under the Law they will be under Christ authority and however He rules.

 

IF by that you mean that I believe that God cannot lie, and has NOT totally forgotten His promises that he made to Isreal, to be fulfilled at the rukle of the Messiah..

Count me in!

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you even own a Bible. I believe you're just parroting what you've been told or what you've read in sensationalist manuals. You NEVER build a case from scripture. You're unable to, aren't you?

I still look for this 'coming of Christ' (unlike you, I'll provide scripture):

23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 1 Cor 15

This is at the general resurrection. Take note of two things. Christ has already been reigning, and the kingdom has already been.

 

Well...
Jesus Second Coming will be the End of this present age, than He sets up his Milleniual reign upon the earth, after His Age, than deliver it up all to His Father....

Once again, you fail to see that the Bible has both a spiritual/physical aspect to the Kingdom...
Here/Not here yet
Any time someone is saved/healed etc that is the spiritual aspect of the Kingdom "breaking into" this present age...

We are still to keep praying for the time when the spiritual Kingdom reign/rule manifasts fully on earth, "Thy Kingdom come thy Will be done"

That will be at Jesus second coming to ushering in fullness of the Kingdom than on the earth...

 

No. Once again you fail to provide any scriptural substance and build a case from it. You spew out what you've been told and read; not what has resulted from years of deep thought and meditaion into His word.

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

 

The Jews hadn't even read Revelation 20, had the Jews really followed scripture they would have known the Messiah would be killed.

Daniel 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Messiah would come in the 69th week, since the weeks were weeks of 7 year periods that would mean that the Messiah would come from the decree to rebuild the city until the Messiah was cut off would be 483 years. After the street and walls were rebuilt would be 434 years. The Jews should have known by Daniels prophecy the Messiah would come and be cutoff (die). That would leave one week to full the prophecy of the covenant to be confirmed with Israel that would be a 7 year period of time. This has yet to occur and is the Tribulation period seen by John from Revelation 4 to Revelation 20, when the Kingdom is ushered in for 1000 year reign of Christ.

Daniel 7: 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


The ancient of days is the reference to Christ, He will come and rule with His saints as they possess the Kingdom.

 

Does over 30 years of studying/reading/applying the Bible count than?
Does your "deep insights" cause you have have "special revelation" that on the select few can attain to?

just saying that you seem to have this "hidden knowledge" others do not from your postings...

And still looking for reasons why the "plain and literal" meaning of the Bible does not seem to be applied when discussing this concept?