Hypothetical Situation

Church discipline is important, granted. However I think that's not the right thing to emphasize in trying to help this woman. (Christians want to help others when then are going through a very difficult time.) I understand the woman's pain in her relationship with an adulterous husband. From a human perspective she finally had to look elsewhere for support and comfort. I do not condone adultery. Remember what Jesus said about it.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

He described a higher standard than the OT standard. Has anyone here looked at another woman/man and lusted after them? I have. So those of us who have done this are in the same position as this woman. The problem is that this sin along with all other sin must be repented of and we must turn our backs on it. Easier to do when you've lusted in your heart. Harder to do when you have an ongoing adulterous relationship and are pregnant by the object of that relationship.

Jesus' attitude was to forgive the sin but require repentance.

Jhn 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Jhn 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Jhn 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The law is not of tantamount concern. Abiding in Christ which requires repentance of our sins is the most important thing.

My take is that this woman needs some Christian and Christian counsel, not a trial by her peers. She needs a friend who can accept her as she is and help her heal from her failed marriage. Then and only then she needs to be told to get right with God because that is really the only thing that can be done to put her at peace and put her life back together. That means repentance and change

 

Just as a note:

The first step of church discipline would be to go to the individual in question. Placing the individual under the "full bore" of discipline would only occur much later down the road, if no repentance occurs.

 

Exactly as the Scripture says in Matt. 18:15. This going to her one to one by a mature believer would fall directly in line with how BaptistBeliever is talking about addressing the situation.

However, what keeps being batted around in this thread is the false idea that the most loving thing to do is accept the woman as a professing believer and member of the church, surrounding her with Christian love and support, while winking at her sin (fornication and adultery) and acting as if nothing is wrong, vs. going to her in the love of Christ, pointing out her error and calling her to repentance while at the same time ministering to her needs. How she responds to the latter is between her and the Lord. But, if she repeatedly refuses to listen and repent the Scripture is clear she is to then be treated as an unbeliever (Matt. 18:17). This means that she can no longer take communion in the church and the members are to share the gospel with her and minister to her just as they would any other unsaved woman in her situation. No one is suggesting jumping right to the final step of the church discipline process.

 

Hello Baptist Believer
I bolded your words above. They seem to conflict.

I disagree. Those of us who have lusted are not in the same position as this woman. That is obvious.

Agreed, so true

The law is what condemns us, so it's very important to make it clear what happens when we break the law, and show no fruits of repentance.

Agreed, except are you insinuating others have "tried" her? I haven't seen it so far, but haven't read all the posts closely either. I do not feel worthy to judge her, but I would like to ensure she is in heaven

Right now she needs to get saved/repent. That is most important, not her feelings. But I completely agree, she needs someone who can accept her as she is (don't we all) and help her heal.

We don't wait for someone to heal before we guide them into salvation/repentance. It is only thru salvation/repentance that one can find security and healing.

 

That is exactly correct. We don't wait for the alcoholic to stop drinking before we share the gospel with him and call him to repentance. We don't wait for the wife beater to stop abusing his family before we share the gospel with him and call him to repentance. We don't wait for the durg dealer to stop dealing dope before.... You get the picture.

 

Yes, I agree. Otherwise we could be waiting a while....
I bookmarked your posts to superwoman, they were excellent. Well written and easy to understand. Are you a Pastor?

 

The whole book of 1 John blows this typical politically correct argument of "backsliding" and "carnal Christianity" out of the water. There's no such thing as a carnal Christian. And I honestly hope this isn't what you meant. Now will Christians sin? Yes. Will Christian continue in known sin and embrace it? NO!!!!!!

Here are just a few verses from 1 John that does a better job than I do as proclaiming the truth.

1 John 1
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (This is a continual walk in known sin)
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I John 2
4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

This is purest and most truthful statement on church discipline I've seen on these boards concerning unrepentant "Christians".

 

You haven't been here very long or you would know that I do not 'do' the politically correct 'thing'.

Of course Christians sin. Otherwise, we wouldn't need v.9. Just read v.8 that you posted in bold.

If we are not as close to God this very moment as we once were, we are a back slider. God didn't move...we did.

I also know some carnal Christians (although I did not use that term, you did). They are saved, but are holding on to a sin that they have tried and tried to get rid of and are just having a real hard time of it. It may be drinking, smoking, gluttony, whatever.

Just because we sin (and we all do) doesn't mean we are not saved. It means we need to turn from our sin, repent, ask for forgiveness, and restore our fellowship with God.

No where in the Bible do I see a 'time limit' on a Christian repenting of their sin. Some babes in Christ do not even know they are sinning. They need discipling. And God does take away all sin at the time of salvation for some people, other people have to do spiritual warfare to overcome certain sins.

 

No one should be barred from coming to the house of the Lord and hearing about him. Shunning only drives them away permanently.

 

I have to disagree with you MP. Explicit instructions are given in the Bible on how to deal with unrepentent sin in one's life.

Bible-Boy's post is the correct way to deal with it.

 

You are free to disagree, but bear in mind, I am always right. If you drive away people with sin in their lives, you become a shrine to the saved rather than a healing place for sinners to come to Christ. And what to do with those pesky saved folks with hidden sin. Let's drive everyone out just to be sure.

 

:laugh:

I think it is wrong to glory in your sin as these women are doing. They have stated that they have every intention of living an adulterous lifestyle.

When this happens, if they are allowed to remain, the whole church could be corrupted.

Reconciliation is, of course, the main goal, but failing that, the church must exercise disipline. I don't think they will have to in this case because I believe these two women will either drop out of church altogether or find a church which agrees with them.

 

Hymaneus and Alexander probably felt driven away permanently, just as Paul wanted, because of either a) unrepentant sin or b) an unbelieving heart.

 

I would say the same. Bible Boy wrote concerning a tumultuous, emotional situation (which, in spite of the thread title, seems far from "hypothetical") with grace and meekness.

 

Paul tells us what to do with those with s*xual sin, they are to be put out. But prehaps he was wrong, you think.
If we're going to allow members of a church to walk around with s*xual sins and do nothing about it, then we might as well allow active homos*xuals to be members too.

 

I agree, and would just add that even in such an extreme case of church discipline, the aim should always be the restoration of the disciplined member. The other thing I have noticed on this thread is that church membership seems to have been confused with church attendance, with some people saying that if we apply church discipline in this way, we are barring people. Suspending membership is not the same thing as forbidding attendance. (Yes, I know there would be great problems if a member under discipline continues to attend services, but we don't just allow church members at our services, do we?)

 

I agree David.
I think if we must remove a person because of something like this, they should be counseled about sin and repentance, give them all the chance to repent and turn from their sin. And of they do do accept them back into fellowship.

 

"Could still sin, but...." The Bible has never allowed us to continue in our sin. Check that part.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait a minute! Who is judging her salvation? The only person that I see on this board that could possibly judge her salvation is YOU, nodak, since you are the only one that has made reference to her salvation.

I guess we were mean? Let me tell you something -- every child will tell you when they get in trouble by their parents that they are being "mean" of some sort. Later, when they realize why their parents forbidden such, they see it was because they love them and don't want them hurt, etc. At the time, the child has to stop something natural: doing what they want to do -- and we as humans know that is hard to do. I can easily see where superwoman would think we are being mean, but truth is mean, truth is hurtful, and the best thing to do is side with truth.

 

1 Cor 5 is pretty clear that a "so-called brother" who lives in unrepentant sin is not to be fellowshipped with. This is clear. To say otherwise is to encourage rebellion against God.

I would say that in most cases, people under church discipline are welcome to come to the church and hear the preaching. They are not welcome to fellowship with believers.