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I am angry beyond words

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Abiyah, Sep 9, 2003.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
    Likes Received:
    I am in an absolute rage that has been building for
    a while and is in full bloom. I attended a holiness-
    Arminian church for years, and when I left it, I
    shook the dust from my feet with disdain, glad to
    be free and to drink from a new, clean fountaiin,
    to wash away the bitter taste in my mouth -- not
    because it was Arminian by any means but
    because of my perception of the corruption there.

    Well, corruption? I had no idea of its exrtent until
    this week, and I doubt I will ever have a clear
    concept this side of eternity.

    The daughter of a dear friend told me many things
    that I saw yet did not understand -- things so
    corrupt and evil that I am shaking in anger, that
    such could be done by a man who claimed to be
    a minister of the Gospel, who led a people, who
    was trusted, lifted up, coddled by that
    organization, his evil acts hidden. I knew he had
    touched me inappropriately, but I had made
    excuses for him, not willing to believe the truth.
    Now, I know: he had no excuses.

    Things went on there, and we turned away, so
    that we would not see and thus be responsible to

    In this holiness church, my children were told
    by a young married couple, who were SS
    teachers, that sex outside of marriage was all
    right, as long as they did marry.

    I am completely blown away by my own
    blindness and my determination to look the other
    way and to make excuses for the obvious.

    Be back.
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Returning to a congregation you left for cause, is not like going home even if through the tales of another. It is rather an eye opening experience that increases the pain.
  3. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    Hi, Yelsew. Just so that you will know, I have
    decided to deal with this by not dealing with it any
    more, after much thought and prayer.

    My note yesterday was interrupted by a dear
    pastor I once had in that church, He was
    deliberately pushed out of that church, and
    conversing with his reminded me that we do not
    have to deal with those people anymore, except
    for those with whom we have chosen to remain
    friends, because they are not like the others. For
    that reason, I can let this whole thing go.

    Thank you for your response. :)
  4. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch New Member

    Jul 17, 2002
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    I sent you a pm, then realized I was logged in under Justified's name. It's me, not him [​IMG]
  5. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    Thank you, OliveBranch. :) I answered your note,
    but to your name. :) May our God lift you up, may
    He give you unmoveable peace.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I have, over the last days, been physically sick over
    what I had to face with two friends because of the
    situation eluded to here. What makes me most ill
    is that private messages received tell me that what
    happened is not unique.

    I put my note here because what happened for me
    was in a holiness-Aminian church, and this is my
    concern. Such belief systems put so much
    emphasis upon "Christian perfection" that they
    make it difficult for one, when they fail, to
    acknowledge that they have done anything wrong,
    so they go in hiding their sin, and it festers, grows,
    and multiplies into significant horrible sins which
    involve other members of the congregation, who
    are used in the worst of ways. And it is the
    leaders doing it!!!

    God, HELP US!! My heart is shredded for these
    people! Sometimes, we say litely, "Lord, come
    quickly," but if He waits much longer, how much
    more will His name be trampled by those who
    claim to lead the people in His name?

    People rail against the Catholic church for
    indiscretions, but they are Not Alone -- not even
    on Protestant best days. There is an ugliness
    that should shock us to the bone, sending us to
    our knees in cries for forgiveness for those with
    His name on their signs.

    When a Calvinist sins, most are taught to acknow-
    ledge the sin, repent, and seek forgiveness. I am
    still somewhat new to Calvinism. Is this right?
    I am still not sure how most Arminians handle
    this, but I would like to know.

    But the holiness-Arminians make it very hard on
    their people: one sin, and they have lost their
    salvation. What I have watched this breed is a
    whole lot of people who learn to close their eyes
    to their own sins and those in their churches,
    leaving these sins to fester, growing infectuous
    tenacles that entangle and drown those around
    them. They cannot admit their sins, because the
    churches make it too hard -- they must be saved
    again and again, and it is a shame, embarrassing.

    Unforgiven sin does not just go away, people! It
    must be eradicated by your acknowledgement
    of it before the Savior and your turning from it.
    When are you going to see this and act upon it?
    You are dragging the Name of my God through
    your mud; you are lying against the Holy Spirit;
    you are taking His Name in vain in the worst of
    ways! This has got to end.

    We have got to pray for the people who do this,
    because not only can I not see how their claims
    of salvation can be genuine, but they are dragging
    down the whole Cause with them. Something
    has got to change. God, help us.
  6. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

    Jun 3, 2003
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    But the holiness-Arminians make it very hard on their people: one sin, and they have lost their

    The greatest saint on his best day was a miserable sinner worthy of nothing but death and hell. The law always condemns us because we can never keep it perfectly.

    Those who have fallen into sin should should be taught to confess, to trust in Christ alone, and to be assured of the forgiveness that God has promised in His Word.

    Each day we should pray, "O almighty God, merciful Father, I, a poor miserable sinner, confess unto You all my sins and iniquities with which I have ever offended You and justly deserved Your temporal and eternal punishment. But I am heartily sorry for them and sincerely repent of them, and I pray You of Your boundless mercy, and for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to be gracious and merciful to me, a poor sinful being."
  7. massdak

    massdak Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 27, 2002
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    abiyah does this church have an online doctrinal statement?
    is this church a charismatic type church?
    i believe you are doing the best thing to seek out a good fundamental calvinistic Christian local church.
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Jun 26, 2003
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    I know and understand your pain. To feel pain as the result of people who are disobedient is just like what scripture talks about. Look at Rev, 2 and 3 and Joseph and his brothers. God cannot ever bless disobedience.
  9. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    gb94344 --

    Thank you. You are right, of course. :)

    - - - - - - - - -

    Massdak --

    Yes, it does have an online doctrinal statement --
    I think. I can check. And no, it is not Charismatic.

    I must say, though, I have had some time now to
    deal with what I was told, and have drawn some
    conclusions. While I am in no mood to continue
    thinking that what this particular pastor did to me
    was done in innocense, I cannot, in my own mind,
    allow myself to think that what I was told by this
    friend's daughter happened as she believes.

    Looking back at the incidents from this side of
    them, without the naivette of being young, I can
    see that things happened that should not have,
    but I cannot accept that they were as bad as I
    was told. There must be some other explanation.

    Perhaps I am back in denial, perhaps not, but my
    friend died from this incident and is not here to
    tell me what happened from her perspective. For
    this reason, I am letting it go. The main reason I
    can let it go is that I do not have to deal wth these
    people anymore, except for the very few friends
    still going there and one in-law family member.

    Thank our God!!
  10. massdak

    massdak Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 27, 2002
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    ok, thank you,
    i would be interested in looking at thier doctrinal statment, if you find the online site please let me know. by the way where is Calisssippitukysourisotalandington?
  11. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    Hi, Massdak. If I find it, I will send it to you
    privately. I have no wish to drag these people
    through the mud I have put on here, leaving their
    name off. :) They must have enough challenges
    without that.

    You don't know where that is?!? :-D It is a
    combination of the states I have lived in. Born
    in California, I moved first to Mississippi in '58,
    Kentucky in '62, Missouri in '62, Minnesota in '69,
    Maryland in '70, Minnesota in '71, California in '83,
    and Washinton in '88. Entirely to much movin for
    my taste. I hope that I never have to move again.
  12. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Jan 15, 2001
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    I had wondered where that place was as well, thanks for sharing that.

    It seems while you were moving to Washington my wife and I were somewhere in our 13 moves in our first two years of marriage, we have settled down now,,,,at least until I earn my teaching certificate :eek:

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
  13. Michael D. Hinton. M.Div.

    Oct 15, 2003
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    I'm sorry for what happened to you and the girl. It's truly awful.

    I think that second-blessing-type holiness folk do have a difficult time with sanctification.

    I hope that you will not blame all Arminians for what happened in a holiness church.

    Many of us Evangelical Methodists have been hounded out of the United Methodist Church because we are Bible-believing straight arrows.
  14. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    :) Initially, I did, but I learned on BB that they are
    not good representatives of Arminianism.
    Holiness-Arminianism is apparently a completely
    different breed. :) As a result of my experiences
    there, admittedly, I have rejected Arminianism but
    not its people. My husband is now Arminian, at
    least to a point, but he is no longer holiness-

    Through my last years there, there was no greater
    proof of Calvinism than were these people who so
    soundly decried it. :) If it had not been so sad, it
    would have been amusing.

    As I said, I still love the people; I just do not accept
    Arminian doctrine. Further, I have known some very
    wonderful representatives of the doctrine. :)
  15. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Jul 22, 2002
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    By the way, Michael, can you tell me how real
    Arminians handle sin? For example, let's say that
    I gossip about a fellow believer. Later, I feel bad
    about that. How would a real Arminian handle this,
    in full? Is this considered a sin? What would the
    Arminian believer do about it?