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Featured I and the Father are one

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have said what I have in the OP, some others are trying to confuse this
     
    #21 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    right, my mistake with the English transliteration.
     
    #22 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    NO! It is to show from the passage that the Essential unity of the Father and Son are taught in this verse. This is because there are some, like John Calvin, who argue against this meaning here.
     
    #23 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    ONLY when Jesus Christ was on earth, was the Father "greater" than Him. Jesus is the eternal God, Yahweh, exactly as The Father and The Holy Spirit are. No Person in the Godhead is any "better, greater", than the other. The Three are 100% COEQUAL
     
    #24 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, and I agree, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit operate in unity, for the same purpose.
     
    #25 Van, Oct 9, 2020
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    not essentially one?
     
    #26 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    By your reply I am not sure you will understand a further explanation. The Father being greater on account of His Son's incarnation. Or in Jesus' own explanation, John 13:16, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. . . ." Jesus having been sent by His Father by means of the incarnation.
     
    #27 37818, Oct 9, 2020
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Is the subordination only due to the incarnation. No. Hebrews 1:2: in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

    Thus as the pre-incarnate "Son" the Second Person of the Trinity acted in accordance with the Father.
     
    #28 Van, Oct 9, 2020
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not all Trinitarians agree on this. It is my understanding the subordination has only to do with the presonhood. In that the three Presons being the one and the same LORD [Yahweh] God there is no subordination.
     
    #29 37818, Oct 9, 2020
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    You will also note in Hebrews 1, where the Father is addressing Jesus Christ:

    "προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος ραβδος ευθυτητος η ραβδος της βασιλειας σου"

    Here the only possible translation in English is :

    "but as to the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom"

    Not as some have twisted it to read: "God is Your throne..."

    As it is the Father Who is here addressing the Son as "God", there can be no "subordination" as there are no degrees of Deity within the Godhead.

    Further, in this chapter, in verse 10 and following, the Father continues to address the Son, and here ascribes to Him the actual Creation of the Universe. Note that the words are a quotation from Psalm 102:26-28. Again, the Deity of Jesus Christ is here attested to by the Father.
     
    #30 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is "subordinationism", which is impossible in the "essential" Godhead
     
    #31 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    John 17:5; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 2:7, 9 (“for a little while”) for example, speak of the "subordination as being "temporary", while Jesus was on earth.
     
    #32 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding Christ as God is never subordinate. Also Christ as a man is now so for eternity, Hebrews 13:8, 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Corinthians 15:28 to be "subject," that is, eternally subordinate. Christ nevertheless never ceases to be God without subordination.
     
    #33 37818, Oct 9, 2020
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The Person of Jesus Christ, the God-Man, is one of the Great Mysteries in the Bible. Eternally Yahweh and EQUAL to The Father and Holy Spirit. I am not too sure you can press 1 Corinthians 15:28 to show the "subjection" of Jesus to the Father post-Ascension, which John 17:5 rules out.
     
    #34 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    He wants to know if you deny the Trinity. Are you advocating oneness theology?
     
    #35 Calminian, Oct 9, 2020
  16. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I got that Jesus is God Almighty from my Arabic SVD and English King James Bible.
     
    #36 George Antonios, Oct 9, 2020
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sounds good, meaning what?
     
    #37 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    have you read what I have written? what do you think?
     
    #38 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Not everything, no. It's not an accusation. Just asking.
     
    #39 Calminian, Oct 9, 2020
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was PNLY temp subordination, while here upon the earth, as His "glory: that he had with the Father was to be restored at His ascension!
     
    #40 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
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