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Featured I and the Father are one

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How so?
     
    #41 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
  2. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Meaning neither I, nor millions of others, needed the finer points of Greek grammar to figure that out or to prove it to others.
     
    #42 George Antonios, Oct 9, 2020
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets see, the Father made the world through the Son. Now I am told some disagree that the Second Person of the Trinity operates according to the 1 Person of the Trinity. However, no explanation of Hebrews 1:2 was offered.

    Further, in this chapter, in verse 10 and following, the Father continues to address the Son, and here ascribes to Him the actual Creation of the Universe. Note that the words are a quotation from Psalm 102:26-28. Again, the Deity of Jesus Christ is here attested to by the Father.[/QUOTE]
    Here the assertion is made that since the Second Person of the Trinity is God the Son, He cannot act in subordination to the First Person of the Trinity. To this I say "why not?"

    Does not Hebrews 1:9 indicate the Father is the God of the Son. This again indicates subordination.

    All things came into being "through Him" meaning the He accomplished the creation at the direction of the Father.

    As far as Psalm 102:26-28, this addresses that God the Son is eternal. Not at issue.

    100% equal in some things (like being our eternal God) but operates in a subordinate role in the Trinity.
     
    #43 Van, Oct 9, 2020
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Nonsense, Hebrews 1:2
     
    #44 Van, Oct 9, 2020
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus in John 17 stated that he was to receive BACK his former glory, correct?
     
    #45 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God the Son relinquished His "glory" to become God incarnate. But this has nothing to do with God the Son operating in subordination to the Father to accomplish the Triune God's purposes.
     
    #46 Van, Oct 9, 2020
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    there are many others who really love to study the Word of God in depth. If you are not one, then you should not bother readings posts like this!
     
    #47 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    how so what?
     
    #48 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I wonder where you get your "theology" from, because it is not from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible?
     
    #49 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Attacking the poster with claims like I did not reference Hebrews 1:2 seems pathetic to me.
    Hebrews 1:9
    John 1:1-3
     
    #50 Van, Oct 9, 2020
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he did, while here on the earth, but back to fully equal now!
     
    #51 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I really want to have Van write a Systematic theology, would be "interesting"
     
    #52 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How Calvin was wrong?
     
    #53 Yeshua1, Oct 9, 2020
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sadly some cannot grasp this Truth, as others the Universal offer for salvation!
     
    #54 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    too unbiblical for me :Geek
     
    #55 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    30.I and my Father are one. He intended to meet the jeers of the wicked; for they might allege that the power of God did not at all belong to him, so that he could promise to his disciples that it would assuredly protect them. He therefore testifies that his affairs are so closely united to those of the Father, that the Father’s assistance will never be withheld from himself and his sheep The ancients made a wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is (ὁμοούσιος) of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father, so that whatever is done by Christ will be confirmed by the power of his Father.
     
    #56 SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus also said, "My Father is greater than I."
     
    #57 robycop3, Oct 10, 2020
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Fiction. God the Son takes direction from the Father, thus operates in subordination to the Father. And the Holy Spirit takes direction from both God the Son and God the Father.

    For example Hebrews 1:1-2 says God the Father made the world through God the Son. Therefore God the Son was utilized by God the Father to accomplish His purpose. This pattern can be found again and again in scripture.

    God the Son is fully equal in His divine nature, His divine essence, but operates in subordination, both before the incarnation and during the incarnation. Any yes, God the Son did not grasp equality with God but submitted to becoming in the likeness of a human, thus operating from a more subordinate condition.
     
    #58 Van, Oct 10, 2020
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    A Note of Clarification

    SBG posted the informative OP of this thread.

    I commented, "all this to say One God in Three Persons?"

    SBG apparently took this question as attempted ridicule, and thus responded with disdain. My bad, I was not clear I wanted discussion of whatever other insights were revealed in his study.
     
    #59 Van, Oct 10, 2020
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 10:40
    “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.

    Mar 9:37
    “Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”

    Thus the Father sent the Son, so the Son was operating in subordination to the Father.

    Luke 4:18
    “THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
    BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
    HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
    AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
    TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

    And here we see that the Father "anointed" the Son, again showing subordination.

    John 4:34
    Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.

    Again and again scripture clearly teaches Christ was subordinate to the Father while incarnate. But other verses teach God the Son takes direction from the Father even before the incarnation.

    Here is an example of pre-incarnate subordination.

    John 6:38
    “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

    The pre-incarnate God the Son took the God the Father's direction before the incarnation.
     
    #60 Van, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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