I Know I Am Elect Because...

All Scripture From The NLTse

Babies don't need to be saved?! They have personal righteousness which gives them the kind of sinless perfection with which God is pleased?!

Psalm 51:5 :For I was born a sinner -- yes,from the moment my mother conceived me.

Psalm 53:3 :But no,all have turned away;all have become corrupt.No one does good,not a single one!

Psalm 58:3 :These wicked people are born sinners;even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.

Isaiah 48:8 :Yes,I will tell you of things that are entirely new,things you never heard of before.For I know so well what traitors you are.You have been rebels from birth.

 

You did not read carefully.I said Christians do have faith.

 

To be clear,all Christians, whether they are Calvinists or not have faith.But it is faith which was given to them from God.It's like our righteousness.We have an alien righteousness;a righteousness not of ourselves.

 

Psalm 51:5 - poetic language. If you take it literally, Psalm 58:3 states we are sinners from birth. Which is it...conception, or 9 months later one is a sinner? What do you do with Psalm 22:10 which states from birth one was given to God?
Psalm 53:3 - read the past tense (have turned, have become corrupt)
Isaiah 48:8 - figurative language. If you believe it is literal, how does a baby create an idol, a carved image (v.5)?

Context always helps. Oh, and how can a baby be a traitor from birth?

 

Bro. Rippon, I think all are in need of our Savior, and I believe that the blood of Christ covers infants, but I do not see anywhere in scripture that God holds one accountable for another's sin. The infant has inherited the propensity to sin, or sin nature if you like, and he has inherited the physical death that was passed from Adam to all mankind, but he is not held responsible for the sin of Adam in terms of eternal separation from God. One must commit sin and be aware of his transgression against God and it's consequences to be separated from God spiritually. Infants belong to God until they commit sin. Then they fall as did Adam. At that point they must be repent and turn to God for spiritual salvation, but physical death will still come because of Adam's sin. Romans 5:12 is speaking of physical death passed to all men.

There are no scriptures that I am aware of that speak to children regarding having faith for salvation.

That is how I see it anyway. Sorry you think I'm unbiblical. :saint:

 

Are you sure you want to stick with this?

Can one commit sin and not be separated by God?
Are all those who never heard of the God of Israel nor His statutes and commandments not separated from God? Do those who are not separated from God spiritually need a saviour?

 

Yes. Those people who have not heard the gospel are separated from God. According to Paul, they have no excuse.

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

 

So you were never "unregenerate??"

Wow! A condescending "chuckle" and "the cosmis vending machine" that -- what -- doesn't keep His promises???

skypair

 

:laugh: Then why does God even bother with letting sin have any substanciate influence upon the elect?

Where we most assuredly differ in that one doesn't become one of His elect until he is in Him and that indicates something quite contrary to your belief that you were in him before you were in him.

So g'head, argue your calvinistic beliefs all you want. I'll just keep trusting the Lord to save all He died for, y'know, how he tasted death for EVERY man.:godisgood:

 

God chose to save all who will believe and all who believe and choose Him are the elect.

The sad thing for you is that Scripture shows us that many believed and even devils trembled at His word, yet they resisted the Holy Ghost and died as yet in their sins and went to hell.

Please explain how it is you were in him before you were in him?

I wasn't in him until after I got placed in him, it wasn't until this was I ever in the sight of God holy and without blame. Eph 1:4:godisgood:

 

I believe you just wrote believing right out of the Bible by that reply.:laugh:

 

Also of note, my responding to His guiding would then be fruitless due to my inability to do anything concurrent with grace. That would then rip Proverbs 3:5,6 out of the Bible.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- you're only elect because you BELIEVE on Christ!! Ever consider that?? If you didn't believe, you wouldn't be "elect" at all!! "Elect" speaks of how God now SANCTIFIES your life in Christ. But salvation speaks of how God gives you His righteousness because YOU trusted in Jesus/turned your heart and hopefully you gave it in repentance!!

No, in fact, the "shoe" is quite "on the other foot" here! Believers in election say that we are born in original sin -- we are sinners even from CONCEPTION!! We semi-Pelagians say that we are born INNOCENT and therefore JUSTIFIED according to innocence. If an infant were to die, it would be resurrected with the "just" into Christ's MK and have the CHOOSE then whether to "take God up on His promises" or not.

Nice try! I hope Sarah Palin is as "fast on her feet" as you are! :laugh:

Sadly, the "doctrines of grace" don't care about babies or good, valid theology that might apply, eh?

Yeah, he was saved in the womb, right? Gimme a break!

A fetus doesn't have the CAPACITY that you insist a mature adult must have to be saved. How in the world could this "fantasy" possibly find it's way into serious theolgoy???

OK, so basically you are contending that fetus John the Baptist was like Jesus, born again in the womb -- "reborn" or born of the Spirit there. Perhaps even a "Savior??"

C'mon, ann. Adults DO have the "faculties and capabilities" to respond to the gospel that you appear to be giving to fetuses!. Your theology has taken you down a "blind alley" and you need to turn around and reassess. Like the pick-pocket protagonist in at the end of "Oliver," you need to "review your situation." (love that movie!) :laugh:

skypair

 

Exactly, Amy!!! Reformers, too, at least originally!

skypair

 

So David was going to meet his deceased infant son in hell??? Get a grip, rip! Ezek 18:20 should be your answer but since you have been "totally hoodwinked" by Calvinism, it is unlikely that you will comprehend what it says!

skypair

 

We can certainly say that they have faith in Calvinism! And it clearly originated with Calvinism -- not with anything they could get from scripture. I would question whether God gave it to them since it so clearly denies that they had to "receive"/accept it in some way.

skypair

 

You pose an excellent question. There is no sin where there is no law. I think we can all agree that that concept is treated by Paul in scripture.

They are NOT all separated from God. There is something called the "everlasting gospel." It says that to be saved (justified beyond the "age of accountability), we must acknowledge God, glorify Him, and be thankful. (Rev 14:6-7 // Rom 1:19-21)

This was the basic "gospel" before the law. Again, can a fetus know this? No. But are they guilty? No. But who, seeing the "Godhead revealed," is not responsible to acknowledge, glorify, and give thanks to God? NNE!

skypair