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If Calvinism is true...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Helen, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Hello BB.

    I've heard it said by Calvinistic teachers teaching that the children of the reprobate are assigned and delievered into Hell and if that is so then all I would say is praise the Lord why can't you?
    The scriptures have a tendency towards the saving of all children but it is ambiguous so you cannot say either why do you bring it up without scripture? Another opinion is not needed but to the law and to the testimony. If it doesn't speak according to this there is no light in it. Is 8:20 (sort of). :cool:

    If children are sent to Hell then of course they were predestinated to Hell but I see very little difference between an old man going to Hell or a baby, what is it that makes it worse for a baby than an old man? The man had a chance? A snowballs maybe? Esau's chance? Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Rom 9:11.

    JOB 1:21 ..."Naked I came from my mother's womb,
    and naked I will depart.
    The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
    may the name of the LORD be praised."

    22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

    Don't you lot read the bible? The drunk driver must be penalised.

    We all live in real life man. :cool: And you? What would you blame, fortune? It's cold out there man. I'd rather know it was God that took my Child than fate, that's idolatry.


    God's wrath is punishment of the unbeliever, for not believing, as scripture teaches, (Me4Him)

    For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

    Jesus died for my sin to the praise of His glorious grace. :cool:

    Eph 1:4-5 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will... Hallelujah? Hallelujah indeed. :cool:

    When they said, "Repent, repent." I wondered what they meant. (Leonard Cohen.) The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:7. As well you know.

    john.
     
  2. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    You guys are all real cute by bringing up your questions and arguments, but one things remains. Whether you like what we have said or not, we have quoted numerous scriptures that say exactly the words we use.

    You may not like that we say that God works all things after the counsel of His will, but your problem is not with us, your problem is with Ephesians 1:11 and God. You may not like that we say that God has bound all men under sin, but your problem is not with us, your problem is with Romans 11:32 and God. You may not like that we say that God has predestined (actually we say created) some for wrath, but your problem is not with us, your problem is with Romans 9:22 and with God. You may not like that we say that God elects, but your problem is not with us, your problem is with Matthew 24:24-31, Ephesians 1:4, Romans 8:33, Romans 9:11, Romans 11:1-7, Romans 11:28-29, Romans 16:13, 1 Corinthians 1:27-31, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 2:1-10, 2 Peter 1:10, Revelation 17:14 and with God.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Brother Bob , I do not believe you heard any such thing at any funeral by any Calvinist . You claimed that you " Heard " some say that there would be babies in Hell no bigger than a span of your hand .

    It is a shame that you are just repeating what John Wesley said against Calvinists more than 250 years ago . That was his terminology . John R. Rice and other " biblicists " have kept that tired old ball rolling . He said in his book " Predestined for Hell ? No! " the following on page 7: " Note some of the foolish statements of hyper-Calvinists [ by that he means Calvinists ]. It has been said that ' there are babes in Hell not a span long ... ' " .

    So in the interest of honesty . Stop it .

    [ March 16, 2006, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Rippon ]
     
  4. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Apparently not. The Bible has clear answers to all these ridiculous statements that are designed to "win us over to free will" by tugging at our emotions.

    It's a futile effort. You can tug at my emotions day and night, but the Bible says what it says. I'll go with what the Bible says, thanks.
     
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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  6. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    Boy, you sure do misuse quotation marks.

    Gee, your statement sure sounds a lot like the grace that is described in the Bible....

    It is justice because Christ was set forth as the propitiation (see Romans 3:21-26). It is justice because everything God does is righteous and we have no right to question (see Romans 9:14-21)
     
  7. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Apparently not. The Bible has clear answers to all these ridiculous statements that are designed to "win us over to free will" by tugging at our emotions.

    It's a futile effort. You can tug at my emotions day and night, but the Bible says what it says. I'll go with what the Bible says, thanks.
     
  8. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Apparently not. The Bible has clear answers to all these ridiculous statements that are designed to "win us over to free will" by tugging at our emotions.

    It's a futile effort. You can tug at my emotions day and night, but the Bible says what it says. I'll go with what the Bible says, thanks.
     
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Apparently not. The Bible has clear answers to all these ridiculous statements that are designed to "win us over to free will" by tugging at our emotions.

    It's a futile effort. You can tug at my emotions day and night, but the Bible says what it says. I'll go with what the Bible says, thanks.

    What Calvi said.
     
  10. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Apparently not. The Bible has clear answers to all these ridiculous statements that are designed to "win us over to free will" by tugging at our emotions.

    It's a futile effort. You can tug at my emotions day and night, but the Bible says what it says. I'll go with what the Bible says, thanks.

    What Calvi said.
     
  11. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Sorry for all the repeat posts. The board or Internet is acting really wacky for me tonight.
     
  12. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Sorry for all the repeat posts. The board or Internet is acting really wacky for me tonight.
     
  13. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Boy, you sure do misuse quotation marks.

    Gee, your statement sure sounds a lot like the grace that is described in the Bible....

    It is justice because Christ was set forth as the propitiation (see Romans 3:21-26). It is justice because everything God does is righteous and we have no right to question (see Romans 9:14-21)
    </font>[/QUOTE]NO, it's not "JUSTICE", not to sinners but to "JESUS", he didn't come to condemn the world and died for the sins of the whole world so the whole world "MIGHT BE SAVED",

    but God won't "HONOR" his death for the Whole world to give the whole world the opportunity to be saved.

    Jesus and God, evidently aren't of "one mind, one accord" according to calvin.
     
  14. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Hello Me4Him.

    You know the scriptures as well as I do why do you persist? Rom 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

    RO 9:14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

    He is not unjust because He told Moses that He would do as He pleases and if that doesn't pleases you I could not but wonder, as always, what God is up to. :cool: But I know this, His word goes out of His mouth and accomplishes the purpose it was sent to accomplish. Continue old chap we have a stage and a job to do for God.

    No good being God if you can't do as you please is it? To you God has no free will. He must obey the law to love everyone. Cool. A fine admission. By the way, law precludes free will. Law carries force with it. That would be a "Kangaroo Court".

    john.
     
  15. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Hi JP:
    quote:
    I've heard it said by Calvinistic teachers teaching that the children of the reprobate are assigned and delievered into Hell and if that is so then all I would say is praise the Lord why can't you?

    My God man, if you can rejoice that little children go to Hell (as your teachers say)and apparently you. I will pray for you. You must be able to understand the Law, in order to break it. And if you never break it, then you never sinned. Why in the world would you go to Hell if you had not sinned.

    quote:
    If children are sent to Hell then of course they were predestinated to Hell but I see very little difference between an old man going to Hell or a baby ,

    You see no difference between a child going to Hell and a old man. I can't believe that anyone on this earth would say such a thing. To me, babies are as close to angels as anything we have know on this earth and don't you wish you were as innocent as one of those. Surely you will accept the scripture:

    KJMatt.18

    "1": At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

    "2": And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

    "3": And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    We split from you in 1893 and now after all these 33 years I been preaching, I truly understand why. I heard your brethren preach and believe me, they no longer preach as strong as they did back when I first started. As a matter of fact they are getting closer and closer to what I preach and I am glad for them, for to condemn a little child is taking religion and salvation to a level I don't want no part of. :confused: :confused: [​IMG]
     
  17. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    ME TOO. :D :D

    I have trouble "quite often" with this board loading, others load "instantly".
     
  18. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    Boy, you sure do misuse quotation marks.

    Gee, your statement sure sounds a lot like the grace that is described in the Bible....

    It is justice because Christ was set forth as the propitiation (see Romans 3:21-26). It is justice because everything God does is righteous and we have no right to question (see Romans 9:14-21)
    </font>[/QUOTE]NO, it's not "JUSTICE", not to sinners but to "JESUS", he didn't come to condemn the world and died for the sins of the whole world so the whole world "MIGHT BE SAVED",

    but God won't "HONOR" his death for the Whole world to give the whole world the opportunity to be saved.

    Jesus and God, evidently aren't of "one mind, one accord" according to calvin.
    </font>[/QUOTE]You just make absolutely no sense. I quote a verse in answer to your question of how God can justly condemn one sinner and not another when both are guilty of the same sin. And you talk about justice to Jesus because Jesus died for the whole world?

    Let me ask you a question. If Jesus really died for the sins of the whole world (every person who ever lived), and some go to hell anyway, how is that "God honoring his death?" What that says is that His death accomplished absolutely nothing. People still go to hell. In your system the Father and the Son are not of the same mind, not in the Bible's system.

    The Father and the Son (and the Spirit) are completely of the same mind. The Father elected some to save. The Son died for those the Father elected. The Spirit regenerates, calls, and seals all those whom the Father elected and the Son died for. This is what the Bible teaches.
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    quote: Rippon
    Brother Bob , I do not believe you heard any such thing at any funeral by any Calvinist . You claimed that you " Heard " some say that there would be babies in Hell no bigger than a span of your hand .
    So you have stooped to calling me a liar. I did not know Wesley said it but glad to hear it. I heard it out of the mouth of a predestinated preacher so I don't care if you believe it or not. and one of your own just quoted that you are taught it by your teachers so you stepped your foot in your own mouth.
    You say we don't quote scriptures but tell tales but I am telling the one Jesus told. I know this much, it sure set the fire under you.

    KJMatt.18


    "1": At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

    "2": And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

    "3": And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    I just wanted to post this again so you could see the folly of your statement. Even you believe that God gives one sinner a pardon and condemns the next for the same crime. You just believe that everyone has the ability to believe themselves out of the condemned category into the pardoned category.

    Either way it is God's grace and His justice.
     
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