If God were calling you to ministry...

There is nothing wrong with studying Gods word and pressing toward the mark of a minister of the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ if that is your desire! There must be a fire in the bones and you have to preach... btw... Women need not apply it not scriptural!... That being said I believe a minister of the church of the living God is chosen in the same manner as Apostle Paul spoken by him in his letter to the Galatian brethren. He was given the revelation by Jesus Christ and him alone but his knowledge and zeal in the Jewish religion God used for his glory.
He did not tear down Saul/Paul but built upon the knowledge and zeal he already had. Notice that Paul met none of the Apostles until three years later. When God choses a MAN to preach his gospel it is on his time schedule not ours!

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
24 And they glorified God in me... I've always wondered how the first brethren felt the first time they went to hear the Apostle Paul preach and declare the Gospel of Jesus Christ knowing his background?... Anyway some of my foolish thoughts... Brother Glen

 

"AMEN!"... Susan... Brother Glen

 

That's the way it's done in the Primitive Baptist Church... Men are ignorant an unlearned in the ways of God and his Son Jesus Christ! God must be the teacher and the schoolmaster because without the unction of the Holy Spirit we all would know nothing. I guess this says it all!

I Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ... Amen!... Brother Glen

 

Fellowship Baptist College in Indiana.
Better yet let your pastor of your local church train you and send you out.

 

I think it's safe to assume that the early church made sure that those who were called to pastoral ministry were equipped with the skills and knowledge to do so effectively. Seminaries are our contemporary answer to meeting that requirement.

Contemporary pastors are expected to interpret Scriptures written thousands of years ago in different languages, within the context of the subsequent millennia of Christian tradition. In addition, they are expected to understand Church History, Theology, Pastoral Care, Liturgy and Worship practices, and a host of other things. There are other ways to get this training, but seminaries do a fine job of it.

Joshua

 

Jimmy--

No, I am not planning to return to school at this point in the game. Maybe in a few years, I would consider doing my doctorate.

 

the hatred for ministry preparation seems like Gnosticism to me. It's unfortunate that people don't want to rightly divide the word of truth and use subjectivist philosophy to prove it. I'm sure glad the surgeon who performed my dad's surgery this week went to medical school. For all the people who don't think preachers should rightly divide God's Word, stop taking your cars to mechanics. Stop going to tax preparers who are trained. What? You won't? But you'd rather have a preacher who isn't approved unto God? So do you care more for your car than you do your soul?

Many good seminaries are out there, and many bad ones are too, and in every seminary you'll find good folks and bad ones.

 

AMEN!

 

Pastor Tom:" the hatred for ministry preparation."

Pastor Tom, my dad went to seminary (Old BBI, forerunner of Cedarville College) and he was an ordained Baptist minister. So I don't hate ministry preparation.

But I do believe in today's world, too much emphasis is placed on seminary, ministerial prep, how many degrees can be tagged after one's name, and how a resume looks.

What good is it to be fluent in Greek, for instance, or making sure your mission board provides a 401K, if you aren't winning souls?

When the Bible says that he who winneth souls is wise and isn't that what it's supposed to be about?

And what good is it to have all kinds of theological preparation if a person has never gotten the "call" from the Lord to being with?

I posted a thread not long ago, asking about "the call." Only a handful of pastors responded, which I thought was interesting given that there is (I'm guessing by profiles) a large number of posting pastors/missionaries on this board.

Just an observation, not intended to be judgmental or cause division....

Re: your point about surgeons....we never know who graduated at the top of the class or who just barely squeaked thru, shoved out the door (Medical Schools don't like to flunk anyone, they don't want the tarnished reputation), do we, until we get the one who butchered us...

 

So, my friend, are only seminary trained preachers approved of God and able to rightly divide the word of truth? Brother Tom, from other posts you have made I will assume that is not what you believe. If is is not, your response to us was overly harsh. I do not object to education - I do object to churches requiring it be received in a manner than God does not require. The scriptural requirements for pastors are found in I Tim. 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9.

Most of the subject was "hashed" in the thread Is seminary important?, so I'll not rehash it any further here.

 

RLV

Do you believe that:

- local baptist churches choose and ordain their leaders?
- local baptist churches can set the standards for those they wish to ordain?
- seminary is a way for people to gain the skills and knowledge which most baptist churches expect from their pastors/clergy/elders?
- it is acceptable for a local baptist church to set seminary education (or demonstration of an equivalent level of knowledge and training) as a requirement for ordination/employment?

In my experience, there is a huge gap between the skills and theological maturity of most seminary-trained ministers and their counterparts who did not go to seminary (including those who have a "Bible College" degree or who have advanced degrees in other fields). There are exceptions in both camps, but that is the case in any field.

Joshua

 

Yes, in the sense that they recognize those that God has chosen and set them apart as leaders in their congregation.

No, I believe God has already set those standards.

I believe that seminary is a legimate way to gain skills and knowledge, some of which may be beneficial to a pastor; but I do not believe it is the God-ordained New Testament method of training pastors.

No. I do believe it is not only acceptable, but imperative for them to require such a candidate not be a novice, but rather one grounded in the faith and possessing the ability to teach it (I Tim. 3:2,6).

Perhaps one reason is that many of these are a bunch of preacher boys turned loose on the unsuspecting world by churches that have not trained them nor required that they meet the Biblical qualifications. I am adamantly opposed to that as well.

[ September 08, 2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]

 

None. Why do people assume that seminary or BC trained preachers don't strive to evangelize?

The old assumption that to be trained doesn't require a calling from God is not a true one. I've met more untrained & uncalled preachers as seminarians who said they weren't called.

Robert: I wasn't trying to be divisive or overly harsh, but I was overstating to make a point: we assume two extremes, namely that uneducated preachers cannot handle God's word correctly, and that trained ones are not called, unspiritual, etc.

 

I would like to see some of you college preachers hear some ol'time preachin'.

Just last night at church a visiting preacher was asked to get up by our pastor to give a message. This visitor asked the congregation to pray because without the annointing of the Holy Ghost he wouldn't have anything to say. He had to "wait" on THE PREACHER, JESUS, before he could preach in the demostration of the Holy Ghost.
Without this annointing, a preacher might as well sit down. You can always tell the difference when he is just talking and when Jesus comes on the scene!!

Susan

 

WHAT?????? You have to be kidding me. Are you making this up?

 

WHAT?????? You have to be kidding me. Are you making this up?</font>[/QUOTE]No, I am not making this up. What part do you disagree with?

 

How many apostles went to college before they began to spread the word?

Am I missing something? They all were undergoing instruction under Jesus, and they did that for at least three years. Not to mention that, as practicing Jews, they would have undergone rigoroustemple training in their adolescent years, which precluded their training in whatever trade they took up.

Paul was most likely an educated man. And don't forget the Gospel writer luke. He was a trained physician. Not only was he educated, he was probably wealthy.

[ September 09, 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

The scriptural requirements for pastors are found in I Tim. 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9.

I would argue that these are minimum requirements, not maximum requirements. Turning 18 does not automatically make one a responsible adult, just an adult. You've got to go and achieve the rest of adulthood on your own. Likewise with these verses and pastoring.

 

Brother Johnv, I would be curious to know what are the maximum requirments?

 

I'm totally against going to seminary!!!! I think it's a waste of time and good money! Some of God's best preachers never stepped foot in a college! The best University or college is still Holy Spirit University. Just pray before you crack your bible open, and study to show yourself approved! I'm only 44, but I'm old fashioned.
God will show you what you really need to know!
After all Moses didn't go to seminary school did he? Elijah was never higher learned except by God. I'd say trust God to show what you should say.

[ September 10, 2002, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Jim Ellis ]