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Featured If the dispute is about Free-'will' or Free-Grace...turn to your Bible

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    If the dispute is about Free-'will' or Free-Grace, the 'power' of the one, and the Efficacy of the other, in a sinner’s Regeneration and Conversion;

    ....turn to your Bible, and from thence it will appear, that this Work is not by the might, or power of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord of hosts;

    ....that men are Born Again, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, His Spirit and Grace;

    ....that it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that Sheweth Mercy;

    ...that the work of faith is A Work of Power, of The Operation of God, and is Carried on by it, and is even according to the Exceeding Greatness of His Power, Who Works in man both to Will and to Do of His Own Good Pleasure...

    (Zech. 4:6; John 1:13; 3:5; Rom. 9:15, 16; Col. 2:12; 2 Thess. 1:11; Eph. 1:10; Phil. 2:13).
    from JOHN GILL SERMONS
     
    #1 Alan Gross, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    False dichotomy
     
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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The powerless "freewill" of man vs. The Efficacious Free Grace of God?
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We all have a limited free will due to our sin natures!
     
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  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    It wills to hate God and that is all a lost sinner would ever do.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    true, as how can a will that hates God and despise Him ruling over it suddenly change their minds?
     
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  7. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Divine enabling my son.


    Joy unspeakable full of glory
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No one believes that man regenerates himself, so this argument never gets off the ground. This is the confusion of calvinism.
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    This is imagined .
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you try to say they don't; but they aren't about to give God The Glory for His Eternal Plan of Salvation, Agreed and Fully Accomplished by Jesus Work on The Cross and The Holy Spirit in Time.
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Sinful, fallen Nature of all the children of Adam will to hate God and that is all a lost sinner would ever do, although, yes, they imagine differently, as the activity of reasoning with a sin-cursed mind of finite flesh...

    The Natural mind is an enemy of God and the flesh profits nothing.
     
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  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    It is God Who Flicks the Switch and Opens the Path for The Holy Spirit's Energizing, Re-Generation Work of The New Birth.

    God Enters in below the level of consciousness and makes an individual aware of their sin, convicts them, and in The Activity of Salvation, God Quickens the dead soul to New Life and LIGHT.

    God Grants and Enables the Twin Doctrines of Repentance and Faith.

    It is analogous to an electric light bulb sitting idle and dead, for all practical purposes, that would remain dark forever.

    When an instigator flicks the switch, the bulb coming to life and lighting SEEMS LIKE IT PRETTY MUCH HAPPENS AT THE SAME TIME, DOESN'T IT.

    When in reality, the light coming on has a logical CAUSE.

    The Switch is Flicked and Once the Electricity Travels at the speed of Electricity, the Light Comes On.

    Boom.

    Logically, God is The Cause of Salvation and the Saved soul is the Effect.
     
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  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Because the bible doesn't say he decreed everything ( absolute predestination, according to Calvinism) God doesn't need calvinists to rabbit on about Glory when it teaches a ' me ' centred theology. No one is saying they regenerated themselves . We are saying it pleases God to save those that believe . Not cause believe in those he saves . Giving God the Glory is believing what He says ,not dead theologians with beards .The clue is ' Calvin ..ism . This is not the bible is it ? This should be really obvious that people are not Following the bible but a man's system . Of course ultimately Augustine is who Calvinists are really folliwing .
    Some argue " I've never read Calvin or Augustine . " We don't need to . Calvinism has permeated many traditions and denominations who have absorbed Calvinist leanings unawares .
     
    #13 Barry Johnson, Aug 29, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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  15. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Some of the world’s greatest evangelists were Calvinists


    Joy unspeakable full of glory
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Exception rather than the rule. Calvinism preaches one thing to the lost and quite another thing within Christianity. Calvinsin is mostly about converting already saved people into the fold .
     
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    It is God Who Flicks the Switch and Opens the Path for The Holy Spirit's Energizing, Re-Generation Work of The New Birth.

    God Enters in below the level of consciousness and makes an individual aware of their sin, convicts them, and in The Activity of Salvation, God Quickens the dead soul to New Life and LIGHT.

    God Grants and Enables the Twin Doctrines of Repentance and Faith.

    It is analogous to an electric light bulb sitting idle and dead, for all practical purposes, that would remain dark forever.

    When an instigator flicks the switch, the bulb coming to life and lighting SEEMS LIKE IT PRETTY MUCH HAPPENS AT THE SAME TIME, DOESN'T IT.

    When in reality, the light coming on has a logical CAUSE.

    The Switch is Flicked and Once the Electricity Travels at the speed of Electricity, the Light Comes On.

    Boom.

    Logically, God is The Cause of Salvation and the Saved soul is the Effect.
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    God ' granted ' repentance to the Jews and the gentiles . Thats it simple .
    No verse at all about the Holy Spirit, or the Father drawing after the cross . And no mention of Drawing from Paul in any letter . Which by any other standard this is incredible in light of Calvernists dependant on this to be the case.
    logically according to the 5 points of calvinism, Boom !! this all lines up perfectly . Thats what folks are fooled into. Because they buy the T .
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    logically if God says in His word that it pleases Him to save those that believe, we should believe Him and not a clever philosophy telling God how He should save people according to the system .
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    God Places Wording in various ways to hide things from the wise and prudent.

    You read, "God says in His word that it pleases Him to save those that believe" and decree that there is only one way to see that, however, that also means NEVER considering how God Saves to The Uttermost those He Has Given Repentance and Faith (those that Believe).

    That is the meaning.


    "Believing" falls short of The Glory of God, without Repentance Granted toward sin, prior to "Belief" GIVEN by God toward The Work of Jesus Christ.
     
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