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If the Roman Catholic Church is so bad...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by jay29, Jan 25, 2006.

  1. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    What part of the word "resemble" do you not understand?

    If Melchizedek resembles Christ he is not Christ. If he were Christ it would have said that Melchizedek is not resembles. Unfortunately for your pet theory it does say resembles, so Christ is not Melchizedek.

    When something it resembles something else it means it has a similar appearance or quality but not the exact same.
     
  2. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    No-one's ignoring Scripture here, Bob. I'm just saying it needs to be interpreted properly - which is not by 'One Man and his Bible'.
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Again your position is incorrect. The idea of "assumption" includes death and resurrection. It simply says that after that - Moses was taken to heaven. Hence the story in the "Assumption of Moses" of Michael and Satan arguing over the dead body of Moses.

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]But if it includes resurrection, then Moses and Elijah (and I guess Enoch too) were raised before Jesus - which blatantly contradicts Paul's resurrection discourse in I Cor 15, where he talks of Christ's resurrection being the firstfruits and Him being raised first.
     
  4. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Shame on you for misaligning your better. Strom was as good a Christian as anyone. Paul warned: “To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. (Titus 3:2)”
     
  5. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    BrionyGloriana,

    I know the Catholic Church teaches that...its imperitive in order to keep those who have passed on "high and lifted up"...but its just not true.

    The scriptures...get ready to back away, Matt...the scriptures are clear and say different.

    "Saint" is a synonym for "christian"...according to Almighty God.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    A person becomes a "saint" the instant that they embrace Christ through faith alone, and are sealed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

    And that makes the Catholic Church wrong yet again, because God says different.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  6. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Matt Black,

    Of course it isnt. You have left someone out.

    The Holy Spirit.

    "When He the Holy Spirit has come, He will guide you into all truth"

    Why would you forget about the Holy Spirit?

    Maybe because you have a "hierarchial" substitute for Him? One that forbids its people from partaking of one of the Holy Spirits ministries in their lives?

    And what a beautiful and important ministry that is.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I haven't left the Holy Spirit out. What is plain however is that the SS formula of me+the-Bible+the-Holy-Spirit-in-me doesn't work. If it did, there would be no doctrinal disagreements between us. I agree that the HS is vital; it's just it is obvious that He must work in a different way to "guide us into all truth"...
     
  8. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Prayer to the dead people are quite common in Oriental religion like Confucianism and shamanism, and necromancer.
    Calling Moses is limited to Jesus who is the judge of the living and the dead.
     
  10. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    No you didn't you conveniently skipped over the fact Scripture does in Heb 7:3
    Melchizedek is a man who resembles Christ in his priesthood, nothing more, nothing less. You really should try to not read more into a verse then what is actually there.

    It's called a messianic prophecy, but once again you fail to provide a scripture that proves Jesus=Melchizedek
     
  11. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Matt,

    Nonsense.

    It works beautifully. The proof is there for the whole world to see.

    2 points...

    1) Those on our side of this, in spite of the disagreements(that God told us to expect) are all proclaiming the same God, the same Jesus, the same Holy Spirit, the same gospel, and the same authoritative truth standard(the scriptures)

    Regarding the disagreements, these are examples of people who see some aspects of truth working themselves out differently, but to the same end. The reason? Because none of us...and particularly not the blashphemous hierarchy of the Catholic Church...have perfect hearing.

    But as we all turn to the same authoritative truth standard, we have a "checks and balances" system in place. As one example, the arminians keep the calvinists from getting too far out of balance, and the calvinists keep the arminians from straying too far out of balance.

    This is in contrast to Catholicsm, who have no checks and balances system in place. Hence...error, blashphemy and idolatry has been multiplying exponentially for 1700 years now.

    2) You are shooting with no ammunistion in your gun.

    If you are going to say that this system doesnt work, you have to provide an alternate system that does work...and you have none.

    Lets say that in the evangelical world we have...regarding these non-foundational areas...3% error in group A, 9% error in group b, 6% error in groups C, and 4% error in group D.

    Compare that to the groups who claim the be the God protected truth dispenser for the lowly unwashed masses...

    Jehovahs Wittness's...false teaching off the charts.

    Jim Jones...false teaching off the charts.

    Mary Baker Eddys group...false teaching off the charts

    Catholicism...blasphemies and idolatrous false teachings off the charts

    David Koresh...false teaching off the charts.

    An interesting note that I just noticed. What follows all thos groups? DEATH.

    JW's? Who knows how many died from refusing blood transfusions.

    Jim Jones? They all died.

    Mary Baker Eddy? Who knows how many have died from refusing medical attention.

    Catholicism? The blood of the saints of God on her hands by the thousands, if not millions.

    David Koresh? They all died.

    (I just noticed that and threw that in for free. :D Now back to the topic)

    More nonsense.

    Almighty God...

    "Let your brother be fully convinced in his own mind. Who are you to judge anothers servant? To his own master he will stand of fall, and God will make him stand"

    And which one is the true one, Matt?

    Jim Jones?

    Jehovahs Wittnesses?

    Mary Baker Eddy?

    Catholicism?

    David Koresh?

    Mormons?

    They all claim to be Gods "Truth Gestapo".

    (and they all are "off the charts" regarding false teaching)

    No.

    Gods way works beautifully. All one has to do is compare it with the hidious alternatives for the proof.

    Sadly,

    Mike
     
  12. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Heb 7:3 says Melchisedec is like unto Son of God , and all the attributes of Melchisedec are mentioned
    - no father
    - no mother
    - no beginning
    - no ending
    - perpetual priest.
    - King of Righteousness
    - King of Peace

    I have asked you who is Melchisedec? Why can't you answer me?
    Where is he gone ?
    If he is perpetual priest, where is he serving now ?
    If he has no father, is he a bastard ?
    Who can be beginningless?
    Any human being can have no beginning ?
    Any Angel can have no beginning?
    Can any human being have neither beginning nor ending?
    How can such person be a " Priest" continuously or perpetually? Why does God accept the sacirifice by Melchisedec?
    Why does Jesus Christ who is God follow Melchisedec?
    Who is King of Righteousness?
    Who can be called King of Peace ?


    Could you not understand who is that Melchisedec yet?

    Can you provide any single clue that Melchisedec would not be Jesus Christ?

    If you cannot answer me, please do not follow me.
     
  13. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Matt Black,

    Here is some interesting information regarding your supposed "unity" in the Catholic Church.

    Some of these have links imbedded with the statement, but you wont be able to click on them from my post I dont think.

    Go to the link at the end if you want to do that...

    Click here to click on links in the article

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  14. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    I have answered your question, you just don't like the truth. Scripture only says that Melchizedek is resembles or is like (no real difference) Christ. "Hebrews 7:3 3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever. " It does not say that he is.

    aphomoiow; make like, liken; passive be like, resemble, portray - Friberg
    - similar to - Louw-Nida
    - be like, similar -UBS


    God accepted the sacrifices of the levitical priests until they abused it. So what does acceptance have to do with anything.
     
  15. Athanasian Creed

    Athanasian Creed New Member

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    I've never denied Jesus was 100% human and Divine whilst He walked the earth - never have, never will!

    That being said, i don't deny Jesus' words when He said He was in heaven at the same time He walked the earth. His Divine nature had no limitations, as opposed to His human nature which He took on in His voluntary state of condescension and humiliation. After His resurrection, Jesus was able to "vanish from sight" (Luke 24:31) and appeared to His disciples though the door was locked (Luke 24:36) His disciples on more than this occasion thought that seeing Jesus, they "saw a spirit" Why is it then too hard for you to believe that the Spirit of God the Son was omnipresent while He was on earth?

    "...the Son of Man, who IS in Heaven"


    Ray [​IMG]
     
  16. Athanasian Creed

    Athanasian Creed New Member

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    When Moses and Elijah appeared they spoke ONLY to Deity -

    Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elijah with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus

    When they left, Jesus tells His disciples -

    Mark 9:9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, save when the Son of man should have risen again from the dead.

    Notice, not what they heard but what they had seen.

    Their appearing was forordained by Deity. They spoke to Deity and not to the men with Jesus who were overwhelmed at the sight and glory of it all.


    Ray [​IMG]
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The RCC proudly admits that it was the RCC that controlled all of Europe for LONGER and to a greater extent than even the Roman empire -- NOT protestants.

    It is the RCC that was "in her golden age" during mankind's "dark ages" NOT the Protestant church.

    It was the RCC that introduced the "inquisition" NOT the Protestants.

    It was the RCC that first began burning bibles NOT the protestants.

    It was the RCC that introduced purgatory, prayers to the dead, indulgences, Mary sinless like God, Mary Queen of Heaven, Papal infallability -- NOT protestants.

    It was the RCC that declared IN HER OWN Canon law - IN her own councils that "Extermination of heretics" was the RULE not the exception and it is the RCC that claims TO THIS DAY that her ruling in that matter was and STILL IS "Infallible". No Protestant church makes that claim for the intollerance of the past!!

    The list is almost endless.

    The "problem" with the RCC history is in no way mitigated by the "mere existence" of a few decades of intolerance by one or the other Protestant countries.

    Glossing over their history "does not promote the Gospel or truth or a correct view of history".

    More importantly the many centuries long history of error and persecution manufactured by the RCC is predicted in scripture. This is in fact one of the most important reasons to "pay attention" rather than simply being asleep at the wheel in these last days.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting but the point remains if in fact this is a case of conjuring the dead. The disciples themselves not only see them but they hear enough to know WHO they are and request to build temples to Moses and Elijah.

    If we could ignore the Bible in 2Kings 2 and just "pretend that Elijah died no matter what scripture said" and if we could ignore Jude and pretend that "Moses was not assumed bodily into heaven no matter what Jude says regarding the book - the Assumption of Moses" then we would have a problem with the Matt 17 text just as the RCC claims.

    But since our practice is NOT to ignore scripture - there is no problem.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Just Moses. Enoch and Elijah did not die they were "Translated" not "resurrected and then bodily assumed into heaven.

    They never died - they can not be named under the term used in 1Thess 4 "The Dead in Christ".

    But you are right about Moses being raised and bodily assumed into heaven before Christ. Many people are recorded as being "raised" before Christ including Lazarus the brother of Mary and Martha.

    Paul delcares that Christ is the first fruits of those who died - but in Matt 27 we see a great resurrection of many saints prior to Jesus being raised just as we see Elijah, Elijah, Samuel and Christ raising the dead prior to Christ's being raised.

    The fact that Moses and Elijah were in heaven and came down to speak with Christ in Matt 17 is beyond dispute. The Bible does not portray Moses in Matt 17 as "The dead in Christ" they it describes all saints in 1Thess 4 that have died and were not raised bodily and assumed into heaven. The Bible also never refers to Elijah as "the dead in Christ" nor does it ever say that Enoch Died before God took him "Without seeing death".

    The language Paul uses in 1Cor 15 shows that Christ is raised AND THEN at the 2nd coming (at the FIRST resurrection which is the resurrection of the righteous that we see in Rev 20) the "Dead in Christ RISE FIRST". This is true because ata the time Paul is speaking Moses is not among "The Dead in Christ" and of course neither Elijah nor Enoch ever did die.

    This means that we are safe to OBEY the voice of God in Isaiah 8 telling us not to join with the pagans in "praying to the dead" not even "the DEAD in Christ"!!

    This means we are safe to trust the voice of God separate ourselves from pagan practices.

    Practices that even the Catholic Digest admits to having links to paganism!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Pagan prayer methods.

    ..
     
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