Featured IF Water baptism requirement for salvation, another Gospel?

This is what can be added to that

This is the true purpose of holiness or sanctification. Sins are forgiven and attoned for, great!!!! Do we continue in the pattern of our life before our baptism? What do the scripture tell us?

 

You're siting Anti Catholic propoganda. Which of course isn't true. However, Logically, Since protestantism comes from Catholicism that supposidly was influenced by Paganism and whereby protestants attempt to "return to the infant Church" before the corruption and there are no original documents in existance and the Catholics successfully discarded all material from the infant church who's to say how much protestantism and the bible is influenced by paganism. After all there are uncomfortable verses in the bible such as Christians being baptized for the dead which seems a very pagan practice. Maybe you suppose Zeitgeist is correct and Christianity is no more than a regurgitation of Mythras worship. In which case Protestants have the same issue. Just a thought

 

If that is true, then all of Christendom was practicing the way you describe above for the first 1500 years of the church - which would mean that the gates of Hell actually DID prevail against His church. Hmmmm....

Brace yourselves for revisionist history that necessarily follows.

WM

 

Do you believe that baptism is for the unregenerate??? Apparently! Regeneration is the work of the Spirit of God and you cannot be regenerated without the indwelling Person of the Holy Spirit. That is precisely what Paul teaches in Roman 8:8-9. To be "in the flesh" is to be unregenerate but to be "in the spirit" is to be regenerate and you cannot be "in the Spirit" and not have the indwelling Spirit or so say the apostle:

Rom. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now, were they regenerated before they were baptized? If so, Paul says they had the Spirit of God indwelling in them prior to baptism or else "they were none of his." Were they his before they were baptized?

They had the indwelling Person of the Spirit BEFORE they were baptized for two good reasons:

1. Baptism is not for the unregenerated = "in the flesh"
2. Baptism is not for those who are "none of his"
3. Baptism is for believers only and believer are his.

Acts 19:6 follows and the apostolic laying on of hands produces SPIRITUAL GIFTS not the indwelling Person of the Spirit - Never is the indwelling Spirit given through laying on of hands - NEVER!

When did Paul ask this question BEFORE or AFTER "hearing" what Paul had to say about the baptism of John and his message about Christ and their submission to baptism????? ANSWER - before.

Paul says if any man have not the Spirit of Christ "he is none of his." Baptism is not for anyone still "in the flesh" or those who are "none of his." So you argument is without any merit.

However, your whole interpretation of this passage is in error. This passage has nothing to do about their personal salvation at all or the indwelling Person of the Spirit. From beginning to end this passage has to do about the baptism in the Spirit and the spiritual gifts in the apostolic age. There is no definite article (the) in the Greek text and so the words "holy Spirit" are what is called an anarthous construction which never refers to the Person of the Spirit but to what characterizes the Spirit or his gifts. Whenever the Person of the Holy Spirit is being referred to the writers always use the definite article but when it is his gifts or fruits that are referred to they drop the definite article.

The Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost and the manifestation of the Spirit was the spiritual gifts that were promised to be poured out that were manifested through the apostles. The baptism in the Spirit was the public accreditation of the new house of God - the church. The church was the authorized administrator of the ordinances. Those the Lord added to the churches through the preaching of the gospel and baptism were then subsequently provided spritiual sign gifts through the laying on of the apostolic hands. Paul visibly noticed that these twelve did not have any manifestations of these sign gifts and so asked if they received the gifts of the Spirit when they believed. They did not even know that the Holy Spirit had been given on Penetcost. This led Paul then to ask unto what were they baptized then? If they had been baptized by a church administrator they would not be free lance Christians like apollos but would be members of a New Testament congregation and would have known about the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost and the manifest sign gifts.

They professed they were baptized "unto John's baptism." Not that they were baptized by John for John had been dead for at least 13 years. Someone had baptized them in the name of John but even John did not baptize anyone unto himself but unto Jesus (v. 5). When they heard that John baptized only in the name of Jesus they realized they did not have authorized baptism and submitted to an authorized church sent (Acts 13:1-3) administrator of baptism and then Paul in addition laid his hands on them to receive the manifest sign gifts that first appeared when the Holy Spirit had been given on the day of Pentecost.

Hence, these were believers in the Old Testament Messiah as was Apollos in Acts 18 except Apollos did not need to be baptized as he had the baptism of John but had no authority to further John's baptism as that was given to the church and so from that point on he ministered through the church as the authoriized adminster of the ordinances of God in the kingdom - the church was given the keys of the kingdom. These 12 were no doubt disciples of Apollos who preached the Old Testament gospel but they were as ignorant as Apollos was about another baptism - the baptism in the Spirit - which identified the God ordained replacement for John - the church.

However, even if you reject this interpretation, the three facts that I presented eariler completely invalidate your interpretation completely.

1. Baptism is not for the unregenerated = "in the flesh"
2. Baptism is not for those who are "none of his"
3. Baptism is for believers only and believer are his.

 

Well then... I guess that Early Christians got it wrong.
Didache 50-120 AD

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize.
7:2 Having first recited all these things, baptize {in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit} in living (running) water.
7:3 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water;
7:4 and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
7:5 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
7:6 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able;
7:7 and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.

Hmmm... Seems like water was an important part of Baptism.

WM