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If we Sin Wilfully...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Is the "we" the Author speaks of speaking of the saved, the lost, or both?

    Is having "received the knowledge of the truth" born-again or is it only having heard and understood the gospel having been presented?

    Is the Author speaking of all forms of "sin"? Or is He speaking of only the "Sin" of rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?

  2. spirit1st

    spirit1st New Member

    Jun 12, 2005
    OUR NEW SPIRIT cannot sin ! It made in the image of JESUS CHRIST!
    1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    We are Born again of GOD perfect seed !
    Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    . Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing

    Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Our flesh is born a sinner and dies because it still a sinner !

    Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    HE did not die for our Flesh !He died that we could be made New Creatures !Salvation is a New Spirit being ! God is only the Father of perfect spirit beings !
    Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    2Co_4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

    Co_15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
    Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    1Co_15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    Eph_5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
    1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
    Heb_2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
    Because we are in our New Creature !

    Rom_9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

    Everything we see is to be destroyed 100%

    Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
  3. spirit1st

    spirit1st New Member

    Jun 12, 2005
    1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
  4. spirit1st

    spirit1st New Member

    Jun 12, 2005
    JESUS CHRIST changed the LAW and the Priesthood ! The new laws are Faith and LOVE the New Priesthood is Judah !
    Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
    Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

    Heb_7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    Rev_5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
  5. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    #1 I believe "we" pertains to all people, but it is important to keep in mind this statement is a hypothetical. Christians have not willingly rejected the knowledge of the truth. This hypothetical places a person at that moment of either accepting or rejecting the truth.

    #2 I believe this is speaking of any person having received and understood the gospel. I believe a person can be enlightened and even brought to the point of repentance, but choose to fall away in unbelief (Heb 6:4-6)

    #3 I believe this verse is speaking specifically of rejecting the gospel only. If it is speaking of any sin, then all Christians have forfeited their salvation in Christ.
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    1John 3:4 God says that "sin is transgression of the law".

    So to "go on sinning willfully" - no an occasional failing where one is determined to obey God's Word but at times fails - but rather willful disregard of the Word of God (Law of God).

    Christ is the "atoning sacrifice for OUR SINS and not for our SINS only but for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2 -- He is made the "sin OFFERING" Is 53:10 -- payment in full for each sin we commit.

    To then sin ("Sin is transgression of the Law" 1John 3:4) in a willfull determined way that cares little about the WORD of God - is to have no respect for the costly blood of Christ that is necessary for covering/forgiving that sin.

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    I agree that this is the same condition as the one who falls from grace -- losing salvation in Heb 6 after having been freed from slavery to sin and after having been filled with the Holy Spirit.

    in Christ,

  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    1John 2:1 admits to the fact that the Christian can sin "These things I write to you that you SIN NOT but IF anyone does sin we have an Advocate with the Father".

    1John 3:4 defines sin "Sin is transgression of the LAW"

    1John 5 says real "obedience" is the SIGN of a true Christian.

    1 John 3
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


    As for engaging in determined sin -

    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

    And then get to the part where Ezek 18 shows the wicked being forgiven all murders etc - by simply turning to God in obedience. A Salvation concept not a civil-court principle.
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    As noted above - 1John 5 talks about real obedience as the outward sign of love for God.

    And is contrasted with real rebellion against the Word of God in Romans 8.

    1 John 5
    "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
    2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
    1 John 5:1-3

    Rom 8
    6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;
    2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house.
    3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house.
    4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God.
    5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken;
    6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
    12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
    13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
    14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: Heb 3

    The book is addressed to Hebrew Christians of ‘that generation’ that murdered Christ, before the wrath came and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem, showing the superiority of Christianity over Judaism, and exhorting these brethren to ‘hold fast’ under the persecution from their fellow Jews and not to fall away back to the old covenant which was nigh to violently passing away.

    IMHO, there were many born from above Jewish Christians that perished in the judgment of the Roman/Civil War of 66-70 AD. Just as with the Exodus Generation, which type is used in the book, God was not well pleased with those that turned back in their hearts to Egypt and they perished in the wrath that came upon that generation.

    Verse 29:

    'trodden under foot the Son of God'

    'counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing'

    'done despite unto the Spirit of grace'