If we (USA) went to socialized medicine…

Because Medicare isn't as profitable for the doctor compared to some private insurers. A doctor can refuse Medicare patients because he or she knows that other patients will be available.

 

Well, they would become angry doctors...because government is slow. And often wrong. So no, the doctors wouldn't be worse simply based upon who paid them...but they wouldn't be happy at dealing with red tape. And if it were bad enough, many of the doctors would either go "underground," retire, etc.,

 

Medicare patients do not get refused here. I guess because our town is only 16,000.

They have the right to refuse Medicare after their quota has been met, but I don't know of any of them that do that.

 

And red tape would be increased by having one payer instead of dozens of different policies covering different things at different amounts?

I don't buy it.

 

Exactly. Medicine would not be as profitable.

It's profitability now is making us spend 17% of our GDP on it.

 

Wondering you get that impression. Actually in market economy, competition keeps costs lower not higher. Here are four key reasons why medical costs are so high:

1. Cost shifting. Both Medicare and Medicaid pay about 30% on the dollar, many times not covering the cost of healthcare, much less the necessary margin in order to keep medical facilities functional. In addition, millions receive charity care from medical providers. The private insureds (you and me) make up the difference in higher insurance premiums to offset the lower government reimbursement.

2. Defensive medicine. Due to malpractice lawsuits, most physicians practice very expensive defensive medicine. Tests, EKGs, MRIs, etc. are ordered in the US where they may not be in other countries.

3. Medical technology. Thankfully, medical technology is growing significantly, but it is expensive. For example, babies born at 26 weeks are now living in US (something unheard of just several years ago). However, the costs associated with these premature infants will approach $1 million. Another example, is the volume of transplants which is increasing significantly -- again a good thing -- especially if you are on a transplant waiting list.

4. Mandated coverage. It is impossible to purchase a bare bones medical policy in most states. Certain coverages are mandated by state law -- the list goes on, but includes mental health, chemical addiction, chiropractors, even acupunture.

 

This is far from a market system, and that's why it's going to collapse eventually.

A true market economy would say, "If you are sick, if you can't afford to pay, you don't get treatment. Period. If you die, so what?"

The system has just enough socialism in it to take out the economic "benefits' of the market but not enough to get the benefits of a streamlined health care system.

 

Also of note, a non-profit survey concluded:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/10-29-07_IHPPressRelease.pdf?section=4056

And

It seems that the systems aren't perfect, but a national health system doesn't automatically mean long waits.

And, most importantly, perhaps:

 

So why do so many Canadians come to the states for medical treatment?

 

I can phone my GP at 8am and see him the same morning if I think it's urgent. If he then thinks it's urgent then I get packed off to hospital and seen by a consultant later that same day. If he doesn't think it's urgent, then I get referred via the waiting list to see the relevant consultant (average wait 3 weeks). Of course, there are conditions from which you can die on a 'same-day-basis' but, chances are, you would get yourself down to A&E if you thought it was that serious (or ring for an ambulance to get you there if you can't get there under your own steam).

 

Well, it's true. With private insurance, all they have to do is send a bill.

With UHC or Medicare, they have to fill out papers before they submit the bill.

 

If private health insurers pay any invoice they're sent without it being backed up and justified with a bit of paperwork eg: "we took out this guy's gallbladder and here's the proof" , then I would say that this is at the very least somewhat naive.

 

That's not even close to accurate. They have to fill out the right codes and justify all the procedures they do. Private insurers won't just fork over the cash any more than the government will. I've seen medical social workers have to call around to several different medical equipment providers to determine if a particular product would be covered for a particular condition, with a view toward insurance guidelines. Yes, these patients were privately insured.

 

Well, if you're rich and you can afford the cash payment, you can sometimes shorten your wait.

Besides, the Canadian system isn't the only system out there. I'm not defending any one system. All have problems to be addressed.

I don't see why everyone is in knots over waiting lists. I've ALWAYS had to wait at least a few weeks to get any meaningful procedure done, and sometimes getting into a specialist in America can take a month or so. Yes, that's with insurance.

In my book waiting + huge bill is worse than just waiting .

 

I think there is no "IF" about it, I think that is where we are heading...

 

The truth from the "horses mouth".

A short but poignant independent film on government sponsored healthcare systems.

Everyone who plans to vote for our new President in 2008 NEEDS to see this.

Regardless of the person for whom they would vote.

TRUE STORY ABOUT 'FREE' HEALTH CARE