Featured IF Your Baptist Group Approved Alternate Lifestyles, Would You Depart?

Actually, he has a way of escape. (see 1 Corinthians 10:13)

Actually, I do know that and by the authority of God's Word I can make that pronouncement.

You may want to go back and read His Word a little more. He says it right here:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The abominable are those who work abominations. The sin of homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. Those who commit those vile acts are abominable. And by the authority of God's Holy Word, I can say they will have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Since the Word of God says they who commit homosexual acts are abominable, and since He says the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire, their belief will do them no good whatsoever if they die in their abomination.

 

No you can't, and to claim it is bordering on arrogance.

Acts 15NASB
8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; [Emphasis added]​

Find me a verse that says you or anyone else "knows the heart," and I'll apologize. You will not find one.

Who is John talking about in Revelation 21:8, Fred? Believers? Of course not! And until this point, which is future and is the final judgment for the unbelievers who have lived in the world, none of them are called abominable. It is by their judgment they are pronounced as such. The verse doesn't support your argument. Certainly you can say they will "have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone" when that is where GOD pronounces judgment on them. But not before.

The word "homosexual" is not in Revelation 21:8, though it certainly qualifies as one of the sins the unbeliever will be punished for. But you can't find another verse that specifically calls the sinner an "abomination" or "abominable. In fact, the list of the use of the word (in English) is: Leviticus 18:30, "abominable customs"; Deuteronomy 12:31, "abominable act"; 2 Chronicles 15:8, "abominable idols"; Psalm 14:1, "abominable deeds"; Psalm 53:1, "abominable injustice"; Proverbs 20:10, differing weights and measures are "abominable to the Lord"; Proverbs 29:21, and unjust man is "abominable to the righteous" and an upright man is "abominable to the wicked"; Jeremiah 44:4, "abominable thing"; Ezekiel 16:25, "made your beauty abominable"; 1 Peter 4:3, "abominable idolatries. Then comes your verse posted above, which is the first occurrence of calling the sinner "abominable" and then only at his/her judgment. Your verse doesn't doesn't apply yet. It is future. You have stepped beyond our abilities as humans in making a sweeping judgment we are barred from making. Done here, thanks. And God bless you.

 

No you can't, and to claim it is bordering on arrogance.

Acts 15NASB
8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; [Emphasis added]​

Find me a verse that says you or anyone else "knows the heart," and I'll apologize. You will not find one.

Who is John talking about in Revelation 21:8, Fred? Believers? Of course not! And until this point, which is future and is the final judgment for the unbelievers who have lived in the world, none of them are called abominable. It is by their judgment they are pronounced as such. The verse doesn't support your argument. Certainly you can say they will "have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone" when that is where GOD pronounces judgment on them. But not before.

The word "homosexual" is not in Revelation 21:8, though it certainly qualifies as one of the sins the unbeliever will be punished for. But you can't find another verse that specifically calls the sinner an "abomination" and this one doesn't apply yet. It is future. You have stepped beyond our abilities as humans in making a sweeping judgment we are barred from making. Done here, thanks. And God bless you.

 

Amen to that.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

This statement is in no way exclusive to homosexual offenders.

 

I am saddened when an administrator uses, inappropriately I might add, words like "minimize", "sugar coat" and wink. None of which was stated or even implied by anyone in this thread. Saddened.

 

Perhaps they are the only group because they are the only group that the Church keeps pointing the finger at as the worst of the worst.

We've sat back and normalized every manner of heterosexual fornication and lust imaginable into our daily lives as though it's nothing, but then have the audacity to point the finger at homosexuals for proclaiming there's nothing wrong with their offenses.

If the same people telling you that you are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with you, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with you, listening to the same vile music as you do, reading the same lustful novels as you do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc., who can blame them for not wanting to listen and rationalizing their sin as many in the Church do?

Folks in the Church immediately think their sin isn't as bad as the sin of the homosexual offender and thus point the finger. But our sin is just as vile and as wretched.

Perhaps the homosexuals rationalize theirs because the folks who are supposed to have the truth are constantly presenting a picture where they rationalize their sin?

 

Amen!...and Oh Me.....!

Well said Zaac...well said....and well....SAD too! The "church" in general has lost much of our credibility with the lost and unchurched of this world due in large part to our own inconsistencies and hypocrisy before them and God. We need Revival on a scale that is almost difficult to comprehend and I sincerely say that it ought to begin with me. I know that in my current spiritual state it is unlikely that I can do anything that can or will make a difference. I wish it wasn't so.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

Sorry, Bob, but I don't believe you can support that Scripturally. If God truly "hated" the sinner, do you think he/she could ever be brought to repentance? Why would God use the influence of the Holy Spirit to work on such as those if He hates them? Doesn't wash biblically, in my book. God bless.

 

It is sad Bro. Greg. And it really does have to begin with each of us examining ourselves and desiring a holiness that will in most circles today just stand out as weird.

The SCOTUS will hand out a decision any day now that may put the Church up in arms again over an issue. And rather than us seeking a more fervent, relationship of holiness with Christ we're gonna be up in great numbers making a stank about an issue.

Instead of us doing those things which honor God and keeps our marriages and families strong so that the world gets to see more RIGHT testimonies for what a marriage ordained of a HOLY GOD is supposed to look like, we're gonna take on an issue.

If the CHURCH would seek God's Kingdom FIRST and HIS righteousness and preach HIS unadulterated truth, the things that honor Christ will be covered without us being drawn off message.

But it has got to begin with us desiring holiness and being able to reject the things we have allowed to become normalized into our daily lives.

 

??? Again we've got the same people telling them that they are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with them, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with them, listening to the same vile music as they do, reading the same lustful novels as they do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc.?

If the Church will constantly rationalize our own sin, why are we so surprised that others do the same?

The evangelical church in America STILL has not repented of throwing the collective weight of the evangelical church behind a man who is against Jesus Christ. We rationalized that sin for an entire year plus and some are still doing so.

It is very rare that I come across a Christian, young or old, who has not bought into this world system of it being okay to watch certain levels of heterosexual fornication and lust because it's just entertainment, all the while hypocritically talking out the sides of our necks about somebody else rationalizing their sexual sin.

I guarantee to you that if you examined the last 5 movies you went out to watch, or the 5 shows that you watch on network tv consistently, that they are full of unHoly situations of which we should not be availing ourselves but we do.

But then we turn around and have the audacity to say that someone else is rationalizing the "okayness" of sin?

Let's at least be consistent.

 

Any individual in any unrepentant sin whether it be homosexuality, addiction, gossip, gluttony, immorality etc. cannot worship God as he should. Why? He is finding fulfillment or pleasure through satiating his carnal desires rather than being truly enriched solely through his relationship and service with God. I have found equally as difficult to try to worship with an individual with unrepentant immorality as with someone who has unrepentant pride.

 

So are you with out sin? Christ said;
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
MB

 

I see this as apples and oranges. Sodomy has a much more devastating effect on God's people than submission issues. These issues are mainly between a man and his wife.

To allow unrepentant sodomites to attend worship is repugnant to me and I will not be part of it. Good thing this would not happen with the people I worship with now.

 

I see both as sin, but sodomy has a greater impact and, as we see in Sodom, it can have much more severe consequences. It looks like this is the bottom of the sin ladder so to speak.