Featured Ignorance-OK, Ignorance+Arrogance- EVIL

Listen, I agree with you, brother, for the most part here.

But I would like you to consider a few things.

We all already agree that arrogance is a bad thing. That's why this thread does not focus on arrogance. It would be like starting a thread on whether or not God exists.

We all agree.

But here is the problem and the impetus for this thread.

We do not seem to repudiate ignorance like we should. We tend to treat ignorance that is preached as if it is an innocent thing.

Now, arrogance is evil- BUT consider this anecdote.

You need heart surgery NOW. If you don't have it within the next half hour you are going to die. You are at a camp in the wilderness of Alaska a good six hour hike from the nearest hospital.

In the camp with you are about twenty five people. In that group there are 5 people who claim to know what is wrong with you and claim to be able to cut open your chest and fix the problem. The problem is that not one of them has been trained to do so. Each of them have their claim as to why they are certain they can perform the procedure. Two of them say they've seen it done dozens of times on TV. One of them says he has read The Encyclopedia of Medicine. The other two claim God speaks to them and told them that they could do it and that they will listen to the still small voice of God within them for instructions throughout the procedure.

Another man laughs at them. He calls them all idiots. He says, "You listen to these guys and they'll kill you. But I can save you. I am one of the best heart surgeons in the world- not to mention I am also the best looking!" But he really is a fantastic heart surgeon- even if he is arrogant.

Both the first group and the last man are arrogant. But which one can really save your life? Which ones stand the best chance of butchering you?

Arrogance by itself is not good- but it becomes DEADLY when coupled with ignorance.

 

I meant to give you credit for this and forgot.

But the other day you posted something about statistics in one of these threads to me.

It blew my mind. It was like foreign language. I am almost certain that you know immeasurably more than me about the way numbers, stats, etc... works.

I think it is obvious that you have had, AT LEAST, some undergrad training on these things.

And I think you'd, in an effort to give God the credit, admit that this is one of the areas in which God has gifted you.

I admit that I am illiterate compared to you along these lines.

But how did God gift you? Now this is important.

First of all, he probably gave you an interest and passion for this knowledge.

But what did he do next?

He empowered you to study. He did this in doubtlessly NUMEROUS ways. Maybe he provided money for you to go to school and to buy books. He made you willing to work hard and sacrifice or he might even have made your mind a sponge to absorb all the information given you.

This is what God does. He doesn't open your mind and pour it into your brain without you having studied and listened to lectures.

And there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to think that he does that when it comes to the Bible. In fact, Paul said, "STUDY to show thyself approved..."


But on this site and in pulpits across this country are men who think God speaks to them and is their own personal commentary. That they don't need teachers that God said were essential for the edification of the body.

And like the anecdote above, they are like untrained men willing to hack open a man's chest and perform heart surgery because they think that the thoughts that come into their mind when they read the Bible come from God and that's enough for them.

 

I agree, Brother- I really do. Especially with that statement of yours that I bolded.

But the problem today to me does not seem to be well educated people who are arrogant ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS uneducated (and you know what I mean by that) people who are arrogant.

Give me the arrogant heart surgeon over the arrogant moron who thinks God talks to him.

Do you see what I mean?

The church would be BEST to have a humble well trained man in the pulpit. No doubt.

But the church would be BETTER OFF having a well trained man in the pulpit who is arrogant (God will likely fix his caboose in time) than a moron who does not know beans from apple butter about how to interpret Scripture but thinks God speaks to him and tells him things in his heart so he does not need to study much- who is JUST AS ARROGANT.

The first guy might step on some people while preaching faithfully the Word of God. This is not good. But the second guy is like the blind leading the blind and they will all fall off the cliff.


I wish there was an outcry against ignorant arrogance like the outcry that is so prevalent today against well trained people who are arrogant.

There does not seem to be the problem with ignorance in the pulpit that there once was. This is a TERRIBLE sign for our generation.

We are feelers rather than thinkers today.

 

I am not repudiating feelings. I feel like I shouldn't have to make this clarification. I am rebuking feelings not based in thought or reason.

Matthew 9:36 shows Jesus having compassion. I am certainly not against that. Who on earth would be?

But it says he had compassion on them BECAUSE they were as sheep with no shepherd....

He had a reason for it. It wasn't some ecstatic experience. It was a visible need. We should feel compassion in such circumstances.

Perhaps what I should have said was we are about experiences rather than being about thinking and learning.

And no... there's nothing wrong with experience if it is based in knowledge.

 

Do you think that means that knowledge is a bad thing??

Do you think that means that ignorance is always accompanied by humility??

Because it does not mean either, Aaron.

 

So long as that ignorance is not accompanied by arrogance.

When one is ignorant but recognizes it and therefore doesn't risk leading others astray- this is fine.

We are patient and compassionate with these people. We hope to be able to gently bring them along to a deeper understanding.

But when one is ignorant and arrogant- you cannot be gentle with them. Arrogance does not respond to gentility.

That's why Paul said on one hand he'd eat no meat while the world stood if it made his brother to offend, but on the other hand he slammed people who PREACH against eating meats.

The difference is important.

I think it may be that the most dangerous thing in humanity is the combination of ignorance and arrogance.

 

He is slamming people who are ignorant enough to think that it is a sin to not abstain from meats and ARROGANT enough to PREACH such nonsense.

Read I Timothy 4.

The weakness he is referring to in Romans and in Corinthians is ignorance. I Corinthians he talks about two groups of people in the passage about weakness. There are the "weaker brothers" and there are those who "have knowledge."

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the weakness is that he is referring to there.

Madness.

I'll tell you what. The next major surgery you have, live what you preach here.

Go to a shaman instead of a surgeon who has training.

Find a very HUMBLE shaman and let him cut you open.


I said arrogance was bad. But it becomes exponentially worse when it resides in the breast of an idiot.

 

We're not TALKING ABOUT ABSTAINERS AARON!!!

We're talking about people who PREACH TEETOTALISM.

Try very hard to actually address the argument, huh?

 

No it's not. It's not the same at all- not even close.

A person who practices PERSONAL ABSTINENCE is not the same a a person who PREACHES TEETOTALISM.

The first person can be just fine.

The last person is a Pharisee.