I'll Answer the Question . . .

Maybe "Heresy" is a bad word....

Let's see...
From http://www.yourdictionary.com/heresy

Now, All Baptists proclaim that the Word of God trumps any teaching of the church.

So therefore, all orthodox doctrines come from the Bible.
And this doctrine of being saved without any help from ourselves is the key component of the doctrine of Salvation.
Until a person realizes that they can not keep from sinning, and they trust 100% in the finished work of Calvary, (NOT of themselves) they are not saved.

If a person says they are saved but says they must keep from sinning, they are trusting partly in themselves to be saved..
And that person is not saved.

What's worse than going to Hell?
Going there thinking you are going to Heaven.

Those that think they have to keep the commandments themselves to go to Heaven WILL go to Hell.

Either a person trusts Christ 100%.. or not.

So... is the teaching that a person can lose their salvation based on what they can do considered heresy?

It is a false doctrine.

You tell me.. would a false doctrine that leads many to Hell qualify to be called a Heresy?

Hmmmm... something to think about.

 

That's what all proclaim, but that's not what all practice. Just look at any Calvinism/Arminianism thread. Look at any thread arcuing OSAS. There are lots more examples.

 

Yeah John... but don't you know that all good Baptist define Heresy as this:

"Any belief I disagree with"... LOL

 

:laugh:

Good one!

 

I am not sure this is exactly how they perceive it. I think these persons believe "believing" on Christ encompasses more than just committing your soul to Jesus for salvation. They believe trusting in Christ means that a person will obey Christ. And there is lots of scripture to support this.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

And Jesus said it is not a person who hears his word, but those that hear and obey.

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


So, these persons believe if they really trust on Christ then they must obey him and turn from sin. And it is true, the scriptures repeatedly tell us to turn from sin. We must not deceive ourselves and believe we can say we trust on Christ and then continue in rebellion and wickedness.

Some call this Lordship Salvation. I do not believe in that personally, I believe if you depend on Christ 100% for salvation you are saved as you do. But at the same time I see that we have no license to sin. We are supposed to live as holy a life as possible.

 

I don't believe anyone truly saved can lose their salvation. However I do think it is important for the self examination of anyone who finds themselves comfortable living with a lifestyle of sin. IMHO we baptist are so adamant about OSAS that we don't preach often enough warning of this for fear someone might misinterpret it as losing salvation.

 

Good point Winman.. I want to do something with your quote.. I want to change one word that reveals the difference in the 2 beliefs... notice this part....Just this one sentence.. and I am bolding the word I want to change...

Now if that would read...

Then the emphasis comes off the person doing the good works, and put's it on Christ which enables us to do the good works

The word, MUST is a word that signals a requirement to do something.
the word, WILL is a word that signals a consequence of something.

True Christians obey Christ because this is a consequence to our salvation... not a requirement for our salvation.

 

:laugh: +1

 

Very good, I like what you said there!

I believe just as you do that a person must depend on Jesus 100% to save him. We cannot save ourselves, and Jesus does not need any help saving us.
And I believe a truly saved person will make efforts to live a good life. I know when I sin that it bothers me a great deal, I am not happy with myself. I think that is the Holy Spirit that dwells in us and convicts us, and I am happy that we have that.

And a saved person obeys out of gratitude, not fear. Jesus loved us and died for us, and was merciful and saved us, and it is the least we can do in gratitude to try to live in a way pleasing to him.

For the true Christian, sin results in a loss of rewards, not salvation.

1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

And Ann, I agree with you too.

 

Too much agreeing going on.. This is the Baptistboard isn't it? ROFL!!!

 

We are born with a sinful nature. We are as Paul says "children of wrath". But to say that we are dung covered with snow as Luther claimed is not the gospel. Through grace we become adopted children of God.

My complaint is that the "filthy rags" quote is used by sinners as an excuse for their free choice to sin. "The devil made me do it" in other words.
We have a choice to be slaves of sin, which leads to death, or obedience which leads to righteousness. Romans 6:16-19