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Immortal Soul/Spirit Theology, Part Of The False Gospel, Practicers Of Necromancy

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Yes, KJB. Please notice, I specifically cited Psalms 12:6-7 KJB. The "words of the LORD" are "pure words" which God "preserve[d]". It says nothing about punctuation. This was clearly stated, along with the texts of Isaiah 28:10,13 KJB KJB, demonstrating how the Bible [KJB] is to be studied. All doctrine must be found in the mouth of two or three true witnesses, not determined by a single punctuation. However, I even demonstrated from all the texts cited that the Luke 23:43 KJB is missing a comma, that was simply either missed in the editing process, or accidently left out of the printing plates. Such, has happened in the past, thus the King James Bible went through several "editions" [standardizing spelling, etc] not revisions. Again, see the link on my profile page, under subsection The KJB vindicated. All punctuation is subject to the "words" of God in all its context. God's "words" are perfectly preserved in the English of the KJB, unlike every other claimant (including NKJV) to be God's word in English.

    I cited the evidence, of like passages in the previous thread (post 42) - Immortal Soul/Spirit Theology, Part Of The False Gospel, Practicers Of Necromancy

    Black bolded for first comma, "Verily I say ...,"

    Bolded red for placement of next punctuation, being mostly comma's, a semicolon or period, "[part of sentence which follows the bold blcj, then bold red, followed by the placement of additional punctuation] , ... [the sentence continues, or closes out]". Luke 23:43 KJB punctuationally is the odd one out.

    I included the punctuation study, because even after all of the evidence from points 1-8, people, because of their long-standing ideology, cling to a "comma" in spite of the clear evidences. Those other texts with "Verily ..." demonstrate my point once again in addition to the previous points, but if the punctuation is the stumbling block, they will be without excuse even still, though I understand things take time, consideration, prayerful study and periods of grace.

    No, not at all. That was not my argument. I stated that it was a parable to begin, demonstrated that it is, and then stated that it was not about what happens at death, not because it is a parable, but because the parable is about something else entirely, as it's context and symbols and names shows. I then paused from further posting on the identification of each part of the parable, saving it for a future time, yet to come. Verily, verily I say into you, to day, as God's grace and time allows you shall see the identification of the symbols in the parable reveal it is not teaching on the state on the dead. Patience, please, I am attempting to answer more pressing responses and then come back to it.

    As stated before, this is why you are misunderstanding my responses. Truly, I have fully read yours, as all other responses, and I end up having to re-cover ground already posted, taking up precious space and time. Brother, will you not give me the same courtesy and thoroughly read all the evidences I posted from the beginning.

    I did not always believe as I do, but through prayerful study and research into the teachings of the person who loved me and gave himself for me, my Saviour Jesus Christ.
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Not at all... But you seem to... So we can agree to disagree... Brother Glen:)
     
  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Man is created Body and Spirit (Genesis 2:7). Death is the separation of those two (Genesis 35:18; Ecclesiastes 12:7). We are incomplete as sprit-beings, which is why Paul, although he was 'well pleased....to be absent from the body and present with the Lord' desired even more 'not.....to be unclothed, but further clothed' in a new resurrection body (2 Cor. 5). That is our ultimate destiny. Our 'unclothed' state with the Lord is, as it were, our waiting room until the Lord returns. Then we shall lived in ageless bodies upon the new heavens and new earth.
    The lost are held, as it were, 'on remand,' in 'chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgement........reserved....under punishment for the day of judgement' (2 Peter 2:4, 9). In this respect, you might like to consider Isaiah 14:9-11. Although the body of the king of Babylon is rotting away (v.11b), he, and others, still have some sort of gloomy existence.
    None at all.
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is that really true, and not gotten from your False Prophetess?
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Well, I have ploughed through your posts #42 and 43 and I'm sorry to say that they are absolute nonsense. You have cited text after text to no purpose. There is no other text in Scripture where the Lord Jesus says, "Verily, verily I say unto thee today......' If there was you would cite it. Moreover, it makes no sense. Of course He is saying it today. The reason He says what He says is because He and the penitent thief would indeed be in paradise that very day. Absent from the body and present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). So simple a child can understand it. :Rolleyes
     
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  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    It was just explained in the post you quoted in reply, and in every post from the OP onward.

    I don't believe you for several reasons, but never-the-less there is opportunity for redemption.

    No. [emphasis on the finality of the period] I have never said it, thought it, taught it or even implied such foolish thing as that.

    Those who say we [SDA, wheat] teach such a wicked thing of the devil, and of sinful doubt, a blasphemous assault upon God's own just, holy, righteous amd loving character, are actually the unruly children of disobedience, and their reward will be sure, even double, and for every such seed of tare sown as the false winds of doctrine, will surely reap a greater whirlwind, a terrible storm of destruction shall be upon them.

    Please for your own sake, get upon your knees, calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus, open your Bible, and turn to 1 Corinthians 15:35 and prayerfully, humbly read that and all the way to 1 Corinthians 15:35-58, see also Colossians 3:3-4.

    Please brother, time of probation is almost up, and afterward it will be too late. Consider the lovely Jesus, read about His perfect character, His great sacrifice for you that you may be "transformed" even now, changed from "glory to glory". Think upon Him in Gethsemane bowed down to the earth with unfathomable weight, the weight of the sins of all the world, even your sins and my sins, which are too heavy for ourselves to bear. He was crushed, as the olive, that bleeds the colour red, upon the mount of olives, pressed down, He the source of Oil for you and I. Our Lord, suffering, agony of heart, bleeding, falling to the ground, dying ... So that you and I might have a another opportunity to live.

    He is most precious to me, even as you are, for what He went through for you and I, how can I not love you, even as He did?
     
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Has anyone considered the testimony of those who were once occultists [high level], and are now Christians, in matters of the State of the Dead?

    By the Word of their Testimony:

    Roger Morneau:


    Walter J Veith [Pastor, Professor of Zoology, etc]:


    Short [Animated]:
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why< All we need is Jesus and Paul and BOTh stated that we still are alive after physical death!
     
  10. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Is there no living testimony in the lives of those who have called upon the name of the Lord Jesus today?

    I agree, even since the first OP, and every continuing post since, that in the first death, there is 'sleep', and a resurrection to come (for righteous and wicked) and are thus not dead in the second death. The righteous will never die the second death, while the wicked eventually will.

    The difference between us is what the Bible (KJB) means by the "sleep" of first death.

    You teach 'conscious awareness and/or alertness, movement to locations, participation in activity, etc' while in thus "sleep" of the first death, because you say that it is only the "body" that "sleeps", but not the "soul/spirit". This is, at its root, the same occult practice of OOB (out of body), or astral projection, astral travel, so-called NDE's, so-called, past lives, etc. It is actually a teaching of devils, a hypnotic mind-implant or suggestion received from the devil, or medium being used thereby (whether physician, sorcerer, hypnotherapist, etc).

    Yet the Bible (KJB) teaches in regards the first death, the "sleep":

    1. The thoughts of the person cease - "perish" (Psalms 146:4 KJB)

    2. The person cannot "praise" the Lord - (Psalms 115:17 KJB)

    3. The person remains "in the tomb" - (Job 31:32 KJB)

    4. The person does not "perceive" any one coming to honour - (Job 14:21 KJB)

    5. The person does not "know" anything, and cannot "work", having no "device", nor "wisdom" - (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,19 KJB)

    6. The person cannot experience anything of the "wonders" of God - (Psalms 88:10,12 KJB).

    7. The person cannot pray to God - (Psalms 13:3, 143:7 KJB)

    8. The person is "asleep", and not "awake" - (John 11:11 KJB)

    9. The person returned to dust, and is in the grave, until resurrected - (Genesis 2:7, 3:14,19; Job 4:19, 7:21, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 40:13; Proverbs 30:9; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; etc)

    Truly, as it is written in in Matthew 22:32; Mark 1:26; John 11:25 KJB, that God is the God of the living, in the context of the resurrection to come, in the which, they who are in Christ Jesus shall never see the second death, as will the wicked who will be found outside of Jesus.
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Would you class Tyndale, John Frith, Martin Luther, General Baptists, etc as heretics, and/or false prophets because they taught, spoke and wrote the same as what, we, as Seventh-day Adventists, and sister White, herself, did in regards this subject? I would not say you do, but some here seem to have double standards in regards that.

    In Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJB, when the text says, "... the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.", what is "the spirit", and where does it go, does it ascend up, descend down, stay in place, etc., please explain, as I would like to hear this as you presently believe it.
     
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I know very well what SDA's teach, in fact about three weeks ago I went with some friends to Elmshaven... I know you know and for those that don't Elmshaven was the residence and home of Ellen White and her husband... Where she wrote and where all her visions happened... As far as Tyndale, Luther and the others I have no idea they believed in soul sleep but that doesn't change my befief... As far as the spirit, if you read Ecclesiastes carefully the spirit of the animals go back to the earth from which they came... The spirit of man ascends back to God who gave it... I believe the reading in the KJV is... As the sparks fly upward... Brother Glen:Whistling
     
  13. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Yes, sister White lived at Elmshaven for the last part of her life. She also lived in other states, and even in Australia. She did have visions there at Elmshaven, absolutely, but she also had visions and visitation from angels ever since December 1844 just after the Great Disappointment (antitype, Revelation 10 &12 &14 to the disappointment of the apostles in the NT after the crucifixion of Jesus), in the eastern states, as well as in Australia. The reason was, the Most Holy Place in Heaven was then entered into by Christ Jesus, and "the testimony" therein, along with the moral Law of God's Ten Commandments, in the Ark of the true Sanctuary, was seen.

    I've personally only been to visit Elmshaven once, with a group of brothers & sisters about 7-8 years ago. It was, in spite of the many people there, peaceful. I signed my name in the guest book back then.

    Glad you were able to visit. Did you ask the guides any questions?

    Neither had I, but it was through Bible study, that I gave up my Roman Catholicism, and its teachings.

    My point was, since Tyndale, etc believed and taught the same, and yet because SDA expound the same, and we are derided, called heretics and teachers of false theology, etc, and yet men praise Tyndale, etc, is that not a double standard? I am simply asking for everyone to have a "just balance" with just "weights".

    Brother, it doesn't say that. The "breath of life of God" is also in the beasts, see Genesis 2:7; Numbers 16:22, 27:16; Job 12:10, 27:3, 33:4; Psalms 104:29; Isaiah 2:22, 42:5 (John 20:22); Ezekiel 37:5-10; Daniel 5:23; Genesis 6:17; 7:15,22; Joshua 10:40; Psalms 150:6; Ecclesiastes 3:19; Acts 17:25; Revelation 16:3 KJB

    So, you are saying the "spirit" ascends up to Heaven, when the first death happens? OK.

    Do you make any distinction between the righteous and the wicked at that moment? In other words, do both the righteous and the wicked (as 'spirit', as you are telling me) ascend back to God in Heaven, or do the wicked not go up, but only the righteous? Can you explain this part to me also?
     
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I know the parables in the scriptures echo truth... According to parable of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus, Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham, while the rich man was being tormented in hell... The rich man was cognizant of his suffering as Lazarus was of his comfort... As I understand scripture Lazarus had the ability to go and would have but there was a great gulf fixed, so that those on either side could not pass to the next... You wanted to know where the wicked go?... This parable gives you the answer!... Brother Glen:)


    Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

    16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I will be interested if you will post some links to where you think Tyndale, Frith and Luther subscribed to 'soul sleep.' I do not say you are wrong but I have been studying Tyndale and Luther recently and have not come across anything of the sort, though in fairness that has not been the purpose of my study. Here is a part of Luther's last words:

    '"O my dear Lord Jesus Christ, I pray to you and commit my soul to You. O heavenly Father, though I must leave this body and depart from this life, I truly know I will be with You forever, and no one will snatch me out of Your hands......"

    He seems here to understand that death is the separation of body and soul, and also that when he leaves his body he will be together with the Lord.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The dead physical body can doing nothing, but the spieirual aspect of us will still be alive, either in heaven with jesus, or awaiting final judgement!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus commended his spirit unto His father, is he still in soul sleep?
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Seems just when I need an answer the Lord sends it... I was reading The Treasury of David again this morning and ran across this tidbit... For those who believe what the scriptures teach... Enjoy... From Psalms 146:4... Brother Glen:)

    1. Secondly, the spirit goeth free or inviolate in essence; death is not the end, but the outgoing of the soul, a transmigration or journey from one place to another. "It goeth forth"; so the character of our weakness we see in the issue; it is an argument of our eternity; for man indeed is perishing, but so is not his spirit. The phoenix goes forth or out of his ashes, "the spirit returneth to God who gave it" (Ec 12:7); that is, it abides still; and as in the body it pleased God to inclose the soul for a season, so it may as well exist elsewhere without it, if God will; for it hath no rise at all from the clay, yea, it bears in it immortality, an image of that breast whence it is breathed. The separate and very abstract acts of the spirit, even while it is in the body, the wondrous visions of the Lord to his prophets, usually when their bodies were bound up in sleep; Saint Paul's rapture when he knew not whether he was in the body or out of it; the admirable inventions and arts of men, manifest the soul's self consisting. Not Socrates, and Cato, and the civilised heathen only, but the very savages believe this, and so entertain death, ut exitum, non ut exitium, as a dissolution, not as a destruction: spiritus exit, "his spirit goeth forth." -- Thomas Williamson.
    Verse 4. His breath goeth forth, etc. The Hebrew gives the idea not that the spirit, but the mortal part of man will return to the dust. "His soul (fem. xwr) goeth forth", i.e., returneth to God; "returneth he (masc. bf) to his earth." As in Ecclesiastes 12:7 : "He" is the mortal man of clay, but "his breath" (soul) is the real immortal man. --Simon de Muis.
     
  19. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    I cited numerous, even well researched Protestants [Tyndale, etc.], after the clear evidence from scripture [KJB], and yet far more could be given, consider:

    The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers Book 1 -

    http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Books/CFOOF1966-V01.pdf

    The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers Book 2 -

    http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Books/CFOOF1965-V02.pdf

    Perhaps you might consider this instead, its much shorter:



    What amazes me, is that "Protestants" [so-called] end up citing Catholic connected scholars ["Simon de Muis"] in the desperate attempt at justification for the satanic idea of immortal soul/spirit theology. They do not know what they are doing, even as those who crucified Christ, nor even of whom they are citing, just so long as it suits their pre-conceived ideology. It is a great sadness to me, to see such declension, and the apostate theologies, filling with devils, and every unclean and hateful bird, and if they do not come out of it, they will perish ...

    "... Simeon Marotte de Muis as 'the best Popish Writer on the Psalms." - The Protestant Reception of Catholic Devotional Literature in England to 1700

    "... It has been traditionally recounted that Cardinal Richelieu, wishing to be patron of the Polyglotte but rebuffed by Michel Le Jay whose project it was, encouraged de Muis, who produced detailed criticisms that remained unpublished.[8] ..." -
    Siméon Marotte de Muis - Wikipedia
    An introduction to the knowledge of rare and valuable editions of the Greek and Latin classics. Together with an account of Polyglot Bibles, Polyglot psalters, Hebrew Bibles, Greek Bibles and Greek Testaments; the Greek fathers, and the Latin fathers

    "... This article is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Catholicism related articles on Wikipedia. ..." - Talk:Siméon Marotte de Muis - Wikipedia [Talk Page]​

    Etc.
     
  20. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Jesus was resurrected and then ascended, before that, He was "in the tomb", even "where the Lord lay".
     
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