Featured Impossible to Keep

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

As in the case of my previous post - the mere quote of the text itself - makes the case.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

Rom 3:31 "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we esablish the Law"

DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

As in the case of my previous post - the mere quote of the text itself - makes the case.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".
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You keep quoting Scripture out of context. Here is a Scripture right in the midst of marriage counseling, and you quote it as if it is applicable to the Ten Commandments. It has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath; it never did. But you don't care about context and never really did.

Rom 3:31 "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we esablish the Law"
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Another verse that you interpret in a bogus way.
Listen to A.T. Robertson:

Nay, we establish the law (alla nomon histanomen). Present indicative active of late verb histanô from histêmi. This Paul hinted at in verse Ro 3:21. How he will show in chapter 4 how Abraham himself is an example of faith and in his life illustrates the very point just made. Besides, apart from Christ and the help of the Holy Spirit no one can keep God's law. The Mosaic law is only workable by faith in Christ.
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Your futility in quoting the Baptist Confession, Spurgeon, and Moody makes you a liar. Not one of them believe the Sabbath, the OT Sabbath, as defined by the Bible, is for today. Why do you bring them up if they are not relevant for today. You act as if you have never read Moody's sermon. So stop misrepresenting him. I must tell you this over and over again. His definition of Sabbath is far different than your. Obviously he doesn't believe in the same "sabbath" you do. You simply play the part of a hypocrite here.

Now, get back to the OP. How would you or any Sabbatarian, keep the Sabbath today in a practical way? You keep avoiding this post. You can't do it. It is impossible for you to do it.

It is not that it is impossible, it is nearly impossible for one living in the U.S, or most western nations who are dependent on government controlled (or private-contolled) utilities, and other such things.

First, you would have to be completely self contained, not dependent upon anyone for anything. That means you would need your own power source for everything.
As long as you are contributing to the cause of someone else to work or break the Sabbath, you are not keeping the Sabbath. Thus your dependence on electricity or gas provided by another on that day is breaking the Sabbath. Provide your own. I am not saying that it is wrong to be modernized, but you have to provide your own fuel. Run a generator. Don't use someone else's fuel. Don't contribute to the "death" of another by causing him to work on the Sabbath by using their utility. That is the principle. You must use your own, and you can't run it or use it on the Sabbath. I suppose if it were a gas run generator as long as you had enough fuel you could keep it running, and never turn it off until the Sabbath is over. Didn't their fires have to be kept lit, and didn't they have to have enough firewood to keep them lit? That is what you have to find out. One thing we know for sure, you can't go out and buy more fuel (or collect sticks).

Where do you worship in relation to where you live? Is it farther than five-eighths of a mile. Then you break the Sabbath! You can only travel a Sabbath Day's journey.

So Bob, tell us HOW you keep the Sabbath. Do you adhere to the law when keeping the Sabbath?
Don't avoid simple questions.

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

Originally Posted by BobRyan
As in the case of my previous post - the mere quote of the text itself - makes the case.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

DHK said: ↑

You keep quoting Scripture out of context. Here is a Scripture right in the midst of marriage counseling, and you quote it as if it is applicable to the Ten Commandments. It has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments. .
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you are holding your Bible at too great a distance to come up with a solution so you seem to be settling for "any ol excuse will do".

Notice what the text says as it contrasts the Ceremonial law to the Moral Law - the TEN Commandments.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Or did you have some story about this being about only marrying the uncircumcised?

What in the world??

The text does not say "what matters is the commandment not to marry the uncircumcised" or "the commandment about Marriage".

Rather it is the "CommandMENTS of God" just as John mentions in 1John 5:2-4 no way to sugar coat this for those opposed to the Commandments of God being inclusive of the TEN Commandments.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

DHK said: ↑

Another verse that you interpret in a bogus way.
Listen to A.T. Robertson:

Nay, we establish the law (alla nomon histanomen). Present indicative active of late verb histanô from histêmi. This Paul hinted at in verse Ro 3:21. How he will show in chapter 4 how Abraham himself is an example of faith and in his life illustrates the very point just made. Besides, apart from Christ and the help of the Holy Spirit no one can keep God's law. The Mosaic law is only workable by faith in Christ.
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As usual not all of your Sunday sources agree with you. All obedience to the Law of God is in the context of the saved saint - for the saints of God "KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their FAITH in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Another Sunday-keeping source not at all inclined to abolish the Ten Commandments - the Law of God.

[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Romans 3:31 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 31. Do we then make void the law through faith?--"Does this doctrine of justification by faith, then, dissolve the obligation of the law? If so, it cannot be of God. But away with such a thought, for it does just the reverse."
God forbid: yea, we establish the law--It will be observed here, that, important as was this objection, and opening up as it did so noble a field for the illustration of the peculiar glory of the Gospel, the apostle does no more here than indignantly repel it, intending at a subsequent stage of his argument (Ro 6:1-23) to resume and discuss it at length.[/FONT]

Another Sunday-keeping source (said for the benefit of DHK and one or two others that miss this detail each time I mention it for some reason).

Matthew Henry --
[FONT=&quot]He obviates an objection (Romans 3:31), as if this doctrine did nullify the law, which they knew came from God: "No," says he, "though we do say that the law will not justify us, yet we do not therefore say that it was given in vain, or is of no use to us; no, we establish the right use of the law, and secure its standing, by fixing it on the right basis. The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future; though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, yet we own it, and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator, subordinate to the law of grace; and so are so far from overthrowing that we establish the law." Let those consider this who deny the obligation of the moral law on believers.

Next the Baptist Confession of Faith - as it too affirms the TEN Commandments. -- as well as D.L Moody.

in Christ,

Bob
[/FONT]
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DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

DHK said: ↑

Another verse that you interpret in a bogus way.
Listen to A.T. Robertson:

As usual not all of your Sunday sources agree with you. All obedience to the Law of God is in the context of the saved saint - for the saints of God "KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their FAITH in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Matthew Henry --
[FONT=&quot]He obviates an objection (Romans 3:31), as if this doctrine did nullify the law, which they knew came from God: "No," says he, "though we do say that the law will not justify us, yet we do not therefore say that it was given in vain, or is of no use to us; no, we establish the right use of the law, and secure its standing, by fixing it on the right basis. The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future; though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, yet we own it, and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator, subordinate to the law of grace; and so are so far from overthrowing that we establish the law." Let those consider this who deny the obligation of the moral law on believers.[/FONT]
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Are you yet without understanding that you are so blind that you don't know what these commentators are saying?

Robertson points to the faith of Abraham in the next chapter:
Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
--Abraham was not justified by the works of the law. He was justified by faith.
Remember there were no chapter divisions in the original. Chapter five was connected to chapter five.

Concerning MH, what does he really say?
1.[FONT=&quot]The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future; though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant
--The Sabbath is part of the OT covenant. It cannot save us.

2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]we own it, and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator,
--We are to submit to the law (in general). The entire civil law of the U.S. was based on OT law. Paul admonishes us in Rom.13:1-4 to submit to the law.

3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let those consider this who deny the obligation of the moral law on believers.
--The Sabbath is not and never was part of God's moral law.

You still avoid answering the OP.
[/FONT]
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BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

So why do I reference the affirmation of the Ten Commandments put forth by these Sunday Keeping sources? Because some forms of war against God's 4th commandment are not endorsed by even Sunday keeping sources.

=========================

[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.[/FONT]

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=============================================
Here Spurgeon's "Baptist Confession of Faith" insists the Sabbath was "changed"

Section 22.

Point 7

[FONT=&quot]7. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished. [/FONT]
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DHK said: ↑

Your futility in quoting the Baptist Confession, Spurgeon, and Moody makes you a liar. Not one of them believe the Sabbath, the OT Sabbath, as defined by the Bible, is for today.
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So then you think I should have mentioned that they are "Sunday keepers" and not those who keep the actual 7th day of the week that GOD commanded in HIS Word?

Like THIS ??

BobRyan said: ↑

So why do I reference the affirmation of the Ten Commandments put forth by these Sunday Keeping sources? Because some forms of war against God's 4th commandment are not endorsed by even Sunday keeping sources.
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Clearly "One of us" is not telling the truth - because you claim I am not presenting them as "sunday keepers" and I claim that I am.

Let the reader try to figure out that no-too-difficult not-subtle-at-all point.

There was a time when I did not think there was an objective reader on this board who could possible go along with the confused idea that I am presenting these sources as if they are keeping Saturday as the Sabbath as God commanded. Apparently there are one or two others here in your same state of confusion on that point.

I just have no idea how you are getting so befuddled when I make this so clear.

In any case the point that is impossible to miss IN THEIR text is that THEY claim the Ten Commandments are LEGIT!

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

Quote:
Nay, we establish the law (alla nomon histanomen). Present indicative active of late verb histanô from histêmi. This Paul hinted at in verse Ro 3:21. How he will show in chapter 4 how Abraham himself is an example of faith and in his life illustrates the very point just made. Besides, apart from Christ and the help of the Holy Spirit no one can keep God's law. The Mosaic law is only workable by faith in Christ.
Click to expand...

BobRyan said:

As usual not all of your Sunday sources agree with you. All obedience to the Law of God is in the context of the saved saint - for the saints of God "KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their FAITH in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Another Sunday-keeping source not at all inclined to abolish the Ten Commandments - the Law of God.

[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Romans 3:31 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 31. Do we then make void the law through faith?--"Does this doctrine of justification by faith, then, dissolve the obligation of the law? If so, it cannot be of God. But away with such a thought, for it does just the reverse."
God forbid: yea, we establish the law--It will be observed here, that, important as was this objection, and opening up as it did so noble a field for the illustration of the peculiar glory of the Gospel, the apostle does no more here than indignantly repel it, intending at a subsequent stage of his argument (Ro 6:1-23) to resume and discuss it at length.[/FONT]

Another Sunday-keeping source (said for the benefit of DHK and one or two others that miss this detail each time I mention it for some reason).

Matthew Henry --
[FONT=&quot]He obviates an objection (Romans 3:31), as if this doctrine did nullify the law, which they knew came from God: "No," says he, "though we do say that the law will not justify us, yet we do not therefore say that it was given in vain, or is of no use to us; no, we establish the right use of the law, and secure its standing, by fixing it on the right basis. The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future; though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, yet we own it, and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator, subordinate to the law of grace; and so are so far from overthrowing that we establish the law." Let those consider this who deny the obligation of the moral law on believers.

Next the Baptist Confession of Faith - as it too affirms the TEN Commandments. -- as well as D.L Moody.[/FONT]
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DHK said: ↑

Are you yet without understanding that you are so blind that you don't know what these commentators are saying?

Robertson points to the faith of Abraham in the next chapter:
Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
--Abraham was not justified by the works of the law. He was justified by faith.
Remember there were no chapter divisions in the original. Chapter five was connected to chapter five.

Concerning MH, what does he really say?
1.[FONT=&quot]The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future; though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant
--The Sabbath is part of the OT covenant. It cannot save us.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
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You keep repeating the failed argument that anyone who keeps the Ten Commandments - ii.e honors his Father or Mother - or keeps the 4th commandment must do so as a means of gaining salvation.

A point I have never argued in favor of - so you keep making this up as if I have argued for it.

Why keep doing that?

Who is supposed to be taken in by it?

me??

in Christ,

Bob

DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

Rather it is the "CommandMENTS of God" just as John mentions in 1John 5:2-4 no way to sugar coat this for those opposed to the Commandments of God being inclusive of the TEN Commandments.

in Christ,

Bob
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You don't know what "the commandments of God" are do you?

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

They are more accurately defined here:
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

"His commandments" always refer to the specific commandments of Christ, which is never OT law.

DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

Why keep doing that?

Who is supposed to be taken in by it?
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Answer the OP. You don't because you can't.

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

DHK said: ↑

You don't know what "the commandments of God" are do you?

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

They are more accurately defined here:
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

"His commandments" always refer to the specific commandments of Christ, which is never OT law.
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Jesus calls the TEN Commandments the "Word of GOD" in Mark 7:13.

Jesus' statement in John 14 is PRE CROSS.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them,

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that pre-cross the Sabbath is on Saturday - the "last day of the week" and is binding on all mankind.

Your reach to this PRE-cross statement of Christ as a supposed time when the TEN Commandments are abolished or are NOT the Word of God or are NOT Christ's (who IS God) or not to be paid attention to --- leaves you on an island that few of even the Sunday keeping sources will wander off toward.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

DHK said: ↑

Answer the OP. You don't because you can't.
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I have half a dozen posts on the OP - and all I am ignoring is your "gather sticks" argument which I have already stated - I am not gathering sticks on Sabbath and Israel did not need fires in the 40 years of the desert for anything but cooking - which they did on "The preparation day" - Friday.

This just isn't that hard.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Nov 22, 2013

According to 'the Bible" here is how the Sabbath is kept. (Since so many here have asked that I read this to them - and I am very happy to do so.)

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

According to 'the Bible" here is how the Sabbath is kept. (Since so many here have asked that I read this to them - and I am very happy to do so.)

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.
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You have done nothing to show how one is to keep the Sabbath.
You have only quoted texts that demand that one is to honor the Sabbath.
Your avoidance of the OP demonstrates more and more your inability to keep the Sabbath, the impossibility of keeping the Sabbath, and that you are simply playing a game--in which you are the hypocrite.
You say you keep the Sabbath; you do not.
If you did, you would be able to show HOW you keep the sabbath, but it is obvious to all on this board you cannot do this.

DHK · Nov 22, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

Jesus calls the TEN Commandments the "Word of GOD" in Mark 7:13.
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Mark 7:13 is not John 14!

Jesus' statement in John 14 is PRE CROSS.
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And this enlightening statement of yours is helpful because....

John 14:15
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If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them,
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MY COMMANDMENTS, the commandments of Jesus were not the commandment of Moses. Read the gospels to find out what they were. Hint: they were instructions given to his disciples.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that pre-cross the Sabbath is on Saturday - the "last day of the week" and is binding on all mankind.
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I have news for you: Jesus didn't quote from the Baptist Confession of Faith. You better find a new Bible!

Your reach to this PRE-cross statement of Christ as a supposed time when the TEN Commandments are abolished or are NOT the Word of God or are NOT Christ's (who IS God) or not to be paid attention to --- leaves you on an island that few of even the Sunday keeping sources will wander off toward.
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Learn to take things in context. "My commandments" are not the "Ten Commandments" or Mosaic law. They never were.

And again I add:

Your avoidance of the OP demonstrates more and more your inability to keep the Sabbath, the impossibility of keeping the Sabbath, and that you are simply playing a game--in which you are the hypocrite.
You say you keep the Sabbath; you do not.
If you did, you would be able to show HOW you keep the sabbath, but it is obvious to all on this board you cannot do this.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Nov 23, 2013

DHK said: ↑

You have done nothing to show how one is to keep the Sabbath.
You have only quoted texts that demand that one is to honor the Sabbath.
Your avoidance of the OP demonstrates more and more your inability to keep the Sabbath, the impossibility of keeping the Sabbath, and that you are simply playing a game--in which you are the hypocrite.
You say you keep the Sabbath; you do not.
If you did, you would be able to show HOW you keep the sabbath, but it is obvious to all on this board you cannot do this.
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How one--a Christian--is to keep the Sabbath?

As ONE: "The Body-of-Christ's-Own Sabbaths'-Feast-of-Christ": "The-Assembling-of-us-together-for-to-Break-Bread" of "the Lord's Supper", "holding to the Head Christ the Nourishment being ministered growing with the growth of God".

That is how!

DHK · Nov 23, 2013

Gerhard Ebersoehn said: ↑

How one--a Christian--is to keep the Sabbath?

As ONE: "The Body-of-Christ's-Own Sabbaths'-Feast-of-Christ": "The-Assembling-of-us-together-for-to-Break-Bread" of "the Lord's Supper", "holding to the Head Christ the Nourishment being ministered growing with the growth of God".

That is how!
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That is not how Israel kept the Sabbath, Saturday, the seventh day of the week. If you want to keep the Sabbath, a day given to the Jews, then follow Jewish law.

DHK · Nov 23, 2013

Sabbath-Breaking from ISBE

Sabbath-Breaking
As the Hebrew Sabbath was regarded as a day of rest, all acts absolutely unnecessary were considered a violation, a “breaking” of the Sabbath, which appears sufficiently from the commandment (Exo_20:8-11); and the head of the household was held responsible for the keeping of this commandment on the part of all sojourners under his roof.
No other law gave the sophistical legalists of later Judaism so much opportunity for hair-splitting distinctions as did this. In answer to the question what labors were forbidden, they mentioned 39 specific forms of work, and then proceeded to define what constituted each particular form. But as even these definitions would not cover all possible questions, special precepts were invented. In order that one might not be caught in the midst of unfinished labors, when the Sabbath began (at sunset), certain forms of work must not be undertaken on Friday. Thus it was forbidden to fry meat, onions or eggs, if there was not sufficient time for them to be fully cooked before evening. No bread, no cakes, must be put into the oven, if there was not sufficient time remaining for their surface to brown before night. See SABBATH.
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Faucett in his Bible Dictionary says:

He ordained man for labour, yet graciously appointed one seventh of his time for bodily and mental rest, and for spiritual refreshment in his Maker's worship. This reason is repeated in the fourth commandment (Exo_20:10-11); another reason peculiar to the Jews (their deliverance from Egyptian bondage) is stated Deu_5:14-15; possibly the Jewish sabbath was the very day of their deliverance. All mankind are included in the privilege of the seventh day rest, though the Jews alone were commanded to keep it on Saturday.
Besides its religious obligation, its physical and moral benefit has been recognized by statesmen and physiologists. Its merciful character appears in its extension to the ox, ass, and cattle. Needless and avoidable work was forbidden (Exo_34:21; Exo_35:3). But like other feasts it was to be a day of enjoyment (Isa_58:13; Hos_2:11). Only the covetous and carnal were impatient of its restraints (Amo_8:5-6). In the sanctuary the morning and evening sacrifices were doubled, the shewbread was changed, and each of David's 24 courses of priests and Levites began duty on the Sabbath. The offerings symbolized the call to all Israel to give themselves to the Lord's service on the Sabbath more than on other days. The 12 loaves of shewbread representing the offerings of the 12 tribes symbolized the good works which they should render to Jehovah; diligence in His service receiving fresh quickening on the day of rest and holy convocation before Him. The Levites were dispersed throughout Israel to take advantage of these convocations, and in them "teach Israel God's law" (Deu_33:10).
The "holy convocation" on it (Lev_23:2-3) was probably a meeting for prayer, meditation, and hearing the law in the court of the tabernacle before the altar at the hour of morning and evening sacrifice (Lev_19:30; Eze_23:38). In later times people resorted to prophets and teachers to hear the Old Testament read and expounded, and after the captivity to synagogues (2Ki_4:23; Luk_4:15-16; Act_13:14-15; Act_13:27; Act_15:21). Philo (De Orac. c. 20; Vit. Mos. 3:27) and Josephus (Ant. 16:2-3; Apion, 1:20, 2:18) declare the earliest Jewish traditions state the object of the sabbath to be to furnish means for spiritual edification (Lev_10:11; Deu_33:10). Isaiah (Isa_1:13) condemns hypocritical keeping of sabbath. So Christ condemns the burdensome sabbath restraints multiplied by the Pharisees, violating the law of mercy and man's good for which the sabbath was instituted (Mat_12:2; Mat_12:10-11; Luk_13:14; Luk_14:1; Luk_14:5; Joh_7:22; Mar_2:23-28); yet inviting guests to a social meal was lawful, even in their view (Luk_14:5).
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It is obvious that Bob comes nowhere near celebrating the Sabbath as the OT dictates he should.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Nov 23, 2013

How to keep the Sabbath? How to deal with the thorn in one's side at an unreachable spot is much more difficult and IMPOSSIBLE.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Nov 23, 2013

DHK said: ↑

That is not how Israel kept the Sabbath, Saturday, the seventh day of the week. If you want to keep the Sabbath, a day given to the Jews, then follow Jewish law.
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Definitely not!
That was how Christians in the New Testament “Assembling-Together”, “eating and drinking of Feast-of-Sabbaths”, kept the NEW-TESTAMENT AND CHRISTIAN: “Sabbath”: “the day The Seventh Day GOD: thus concerning: IN THESE LAST DAYS: BY THE SON: SPAKE.”

Have I forgotten to mention it?

Then, needed I to have mentioned it?

DHK · Nov 23, 2013

Gerhard Ebersoehn said: ↑

Definitely not!
That was how Christians in the New Testament “Assembling-Together”, “eating and drinking of Feast-of-Sabbaths”, kept the NEW-TESTAMENT AND CHRISTIAN: “Sabbath”: “the day The Seventh Day GOD: thus concerning: IN THESE LAST DAYS: BY THE SON: SPAKE.”

Have I forgotten to mention it?

Then, needed I to have mentioned it?
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The Sabbath was given to Israel and only Israel according to Exodus 31, as a sign of the covenant made between Jehovah and them. Therefore to keep it one must keep the Levitical law that goes with it.
Christians did not and do not do that.

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