Featured Impossible to Keep

The Mosaic Sabbath was the OLD covenant Sabbath given solely to the Jews and you cannot keep it without keeping all OLD covenant laws that are inseparably from it under Mosaic Law. If one part of the Mosaic Law is abolished all is abolished, if one part continues then all continue. You cannot pick and choose as it stands as a COVENANT whole.

However, if we are speaking of the pre-Mosaic, thus pre-old covenant Sabbath that is another story as that is fulfilled only by a new heaven and a new earth (Heb. 4:1-11) under the New Covenant and has nothing to do with Saturday but the New Covenant Lord's Day (Psa. 118:20-24; Mk. 16:9; Jn. 20; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16; Heb. 4:1-11; Rev. 1:10).

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
According to 'the Bible" here is how the Sabbath is kept. (Since so many here have asked that I read this to them - and I am very happy to do so.)

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.



Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—


Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

Seriously - you turn a Blind eye to scripture as given here and expect that to fly??


Who buys it??

See the parts of the text that are "highlighted" beyond simply "honor the Sabbath in some vague undefined way" as you suggest?

seriously you need a solution other than Bible-detail avoidance.

What is obvious to all is that you are not reading the texts.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Sunday keeping Baptists do not agree with your claims that the Ten Commandments are not part of the New Covenant and can be ignored. I would differ with you wild claims - even more so.

The Jer 31:31-33 "NEW Covenant" also quoted in Hebrews 8 insists that it is the "LAW OF GOD" that is written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant. Just as the Baptist Confession of Faith claims about the TEN Commandments.

======================

[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]God gave to Adam a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of universal obedience which was written in his heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The moral law ever binds [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done. [/FONT]

 

Interesting that D.L. Moody makes pretty much the same argument as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and Spurgeon when it comes to the TEN Commandments.

Maybe they read the Bible. The Saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

It's called "exegesis" paying attention to the teaching of Christ on the subject of the Word of God, the Law of God, the Ten Commandments in all of the Gospels for the full picture.

Jesus calls the TEN Commandments the "Word of GOD" in Mark 7:13.

Jesus' statement in John 14 is PRE CROSS.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them,


Mark 7 is where Jesus condemns the work of religious teachers (read: some of the ideas you are attempting with God's Law) - who may try to edit/delete/downsize one of the Commandments of God in exchange for uplifting their own man-made-traditions.

Jesus argued that scripture is valid and is a test of doctrine and that man is not to go against the WORD of God even though you think His message was to abolish His OWN God-given WORD -- scripture.

[FONT=&quot]10 Commandments are[/FONT][FONT=&quot] –[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Law of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Word of God” Mark 7:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Scripture” James 2:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Law” – James 2:9-11[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT Commandments[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Matt 5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

 

The sole purpose of the law is to reveal the knowledge of sin. It still serves that purpose. However, as a covenant, the ten commandments has been abolished and Christians are not "under" the ten commandments or any other law but solely "under" grace and thus no longer subject to the condemnation of law but are dead to any further penalization by the law.

The writing of the law upon our hearts is a figure of speech that conveys the truth of the new birth or new nature that is created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) or the impartation of the very moral nature of God which is "the law of the Spirit of life" in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:2) that operates on a higher principle (love) than any law can produce. It is the higher prinicple that the law aimed at but could never achieve and never will achieve and thus the law is INFERIOR to this higher principle. This is the "new" commandment (1 Jn. 2:7-8) whereby the very moral nature of God operates called "love" as God "IS love."

Love needs no law as no law can produce love but can only define what it is not. Just as God is not UNDER THE TEN COMMANDMENTS but rather the ten commandments are an imperfect expression of His very moral nature, a nature which needs no laws to control, guide, express or define right from wrong, but is the basis for all laws that define right and wrong, so is the moral nature imparted to the child of God in new birth. The Law of liberty is the FREE expression of the very moral nature of God through the new birth which NATURALLY expresses itself according to the higher law of love.

I realize this is above your spiritual comprehension since you operate on the lower level of laws to guide, control and express how you live.

 

Here is an interesting thought for DHK to respond to --

Read the post below carefully...

=====================================


[FONT=&quot]10 Commandments are[/FONT][FONT=&quot] –[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Law of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Word of God” Mark 7:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Scripture” James 2:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Law” – James 2:9-11[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT Commandments[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Matt 5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

---------------------

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to 'the Bible" here is how the Sabbath is kept. (Since so many here have asked that I read this to them - and I am very happy to do so.)

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.



Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—


Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.


[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

======================

That last comment is significant - don't miss it. I could have posted the exact same list of texts - as a Sunday Keeping Baptist who claimed all the same things about how to keep the Sabbath -- and DHK would not be having all this heart burn over the subject. All the vitriol and acrimony so often seen in DHK and Biblicist's responses on this subject would simply vanish.

Now why do you suppose that is??

in Christ,

Bob

 

By contrast.

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their Faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." 1 John 5:1-4

Saints under the New Covenant establish the Law of God (Rom 3:31) rather than being at war against it -because the New Covenant is where God says He will " write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind". Hebrews 8.



So then we have Romans 2.

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

Ah! But what you are missing is that keeping His commandments is the lessor consequence of the greater law of love operating within us that completely invalidates and supersedes being "under the law." The greater consequence is love needs no such laws, as love always EXCEEDS any amount of such laws. Why? Because no set of laws can produce God's moral nature but are only inferior expressions of it. We have the superior moral nature of God living within us - Christ in us.

That is why it takes hundred's of written laws in scripture to finitely express God's infinite moral nature as no amount of written laws can properly acheive what His living moral nature accomplishes in any given circumstance.

Hence, to bring us back under the Law is to move from the superior life of Christ in us to the inferior expression in written commands which no amount can acheive what the "Life of the Spirit of Christ Jesus" in us acheives in any given circumstances.

So, your scriptures are ASSERTIONS of that life not the CONDITIONS for obtaining, mantaining or sustaining that life and that is where you err and err greatly. Your SDAism reverses this cause and effect making the cause ultimately the condition and thus repudiating the grace of God and turning the love of God into legalism.

 

"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." 1 John 5:1-4

Is that statement directed to me or the Apostle John?

You're simply making stuff up "you quoting you".

By contrast in the actual text John says that this is the fruit of or evidence of the born-again life. Christ calls it "the fruit" of that life. If you weren't holding the text at such a distance you would not make that mistake.

1John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;

John is not parsing - between "assertion and maintenance" as you do.

John says "By this we know"

John says "this IS the Love of God"

Better to stick with the text rather than make stuff up.

The point of quoting the text is to show that while the Bible does not say that the lost must first keep the commandments of God to be saved - it does tell us a thing or two about loving one another and loving God - and how it is manifest.


in Christ,

Bob

 

He did not say "if you want to be saved keep my commandments" but he is simply asserting the evidence of love.

Even under the Old Covenant the express desire by God is that love be the motivating factor behind keeping commandments. Any other motive makes any attempt at keeping the law sin as God looks upon the heart motive behind all that we do. Hence, again love takes priority over commandment keeping as it is the necessary motive that makes our attitudes and actions acceptable in God's sight.

This is the ASSERTION of what it is to be a child of God not the conditions to become a child of God.

It properly represents the intent of the Apostle John.

Do you know the differnce between "evidence of" and "condition for" something? Apparently not! Evidence asserts the reality of it whereas a condition precedes obtaining it.

On the contrary, John is carefully parsing his words and make a clear distintion between evidence of an already existent reality versus a condition to obtain that reality. Hence, John is denying that commandment keeping is a condition to obtain, maintain or sustain child of God status but rather is the evidential assertion that such a status has already been obtained.

 

Great example questions :thumbsup:

For anyone who actually keeps the Sabbath they should have no trouble answering what it is they actually DO to keep the Sabbath. The Jews did not worship the "day", but rather they OBEYED the RULES God gave to observe on that "day".

Also, Bob made the statement that Messianic Jews keep the Sabbath. We have a Messianic Jewish congregation which we support in our area. Yes, they do gather together for worship on Friday evenings, but it is not because they believe that this is God's NT command for His saints, but rather because their outreach is to their Jewish brethren and this is a way to invite them to join with them in their services. They are established in a prominently Jewish community. They also hold services on Sunday.

 

[FONT=&quot]Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.


[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

======================

That last comment is significant - don't miss it. I could have posted the exact same list of texts - as a Sunday Keeping Baptist who claimed all the same things about how to keep the Sabbath -- and DHK would not be having all this heart burn over the subject. All the vitriol and acrimony so often seen in DHK and Biblicist's responses on this subject would simply vanish.

Now why do you suppose that is??

Wow the Bible verses I listed are meaningless according to you - in your sacrifice-all-for-war-against-the-Sabbath idea. So much Bible to "dismiss" so little time???

Never thought it would come to that.

What is amazing is that the Bible you 'dismiss' as not being informative - includes the command to assemble for worship on Sabbath in Is 66:23 and in Lev 23.

And what about the other texts listed speaking specifically about not engaging in business or work as in the case of Ex 20:8-11 are you really claiming to dismiss them because you don' t know what business or work is so they are of no use in giving us information on what we are to do on Sabbath - they are "meaningless" as you say??

You claim these texts do not tell us what is supposed to be done on Sabbath though they list the fact that we are to cease from our daily labor and we are to assemble before God in worship -yet you then toss these texts out claiming they are "meaningless" when it comes to the information about what is to be done on Sabbath??

Who buys that?

Steaver maybe in his choice to "honor" the Sabbath - such a way that he cannot even bring himself to quote God's Sabbath commandment??

Seriously?

The use of "Bible avoidance" to dance around the subject of the Ten Commandments and the fact that the 4th Commandment is valid - is not as difficult to detect as you may have at first imagined.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Hint: here is a link to an actual Messianic Jewish group.

http://www.messiahassembly.com/shabbot.asp

One of the things most notable about the Messianic Jewish congregations I have visited during their Saturday morning Sabbath services - is that they all claim to have a lot of interest among former Seventh-day Adventists who go there because the Messianic groups have the same acceptance of the 4th commandment - Seventh day Sabbath as applicable to all mankind under the New Covenant.

Similar to the claim of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" that the 4th commandment applies to all mankind and was the SEVENTH day of the week from Eden to the cross. Only the Messianic Jewish groups that I am familiar with simply choose not to "Bend the Sabbath" to point it to Sunday after the cross the way the "Baptist Confession of Faith" does.

Steaver I would not expect you to know some of these details as your own choice to "Honor the Sabbath" has not included your being able to bring yourself to actually quote the Sabbath commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Did you miss the fact that I said our church supports a Messianic Jewish congregation?? Did you miss the fact that I said they worship on Sabbath AND Sunday?? And the reason they do hold Sabbath worship is to draw in the Jewish community and present Jesus Christ to them??

Members from our church visit them and members from their church visits us. they find NO NT command to worship on Sabbath. They do so as an outreach to their fellow Jews, that they might save some by so doing.

Thus your "All" Messianic Jews do not believe as the SDA concerning the Sabbath. I have first hand knowledge of this.

 

You might want to do a little deeper research before you declare the Messianic Jews on the side of the SDA...

Taken from the website you provided....

This congregation is the exact OPPOSITE of your SDA preaching....

 

As Seaver has already pointed out, this is utterly false. Yes, there are Messianic Jews who do "keep the Sabbath" but the command to "keep the Sabbath" was for the Jewish people, not for the church. What SDA and others fail to understand, who believe the Sabbath is for everyone, is that the Sabbath was given specifically as a sign to Israel, and only Israel.

Exodus 31, NASB
13 "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.' "​

And no, replacement theology is false; the church has not "replaced" Israel. For other examples of this, look at Acts 15. Some people thought that as they proclaimed Yeshua to gentiles "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses." The apostles disagreed.

In Acts 15 the apostles said: "We should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God" with Torah observances which are Jewish sign commandments (circumcision, Sabbath, dietary law, fringes).

In Romans 14, Paul argued that the Sabbath is holy for Jews and that gentiles should not disdain Jews for keeping it. But assumed throughout is that non-Jews would not keep the Sabbath in the congregations overseen by Paul: "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind."