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In Moderation....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs: Good post!
     
  2. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Extremely defensive.

    Why?
     
  3. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    #43 carpro, Sep 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yet God allowed atleast one drink in Scripture at many times (we don't know the actual quantity they drank, so I'll go with one), so impairment is not the measure of drunkeness.
     
  5. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Correct.

    So, what good comes from being even minimally impaired?
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The argument is hypocrisy unless one stands firmly against consumption of sugar, caffiene, and similar foods.

    Scripture permits a person to consume alcohol. Period. End of story.
     
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    A very good non-answer.

    Time to close the thread. Oh! Wait a minute.

    Moderation is the subject, not whether or not scripture permits the drinking of alcohol.

    Considering that , is it Ok if the thread continues, Johnv?
     
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    "Impaired" is quite subjective, honestly. Interestingly enough, on that site, I can drink a low alcohol beer or a glass of wine and there's no difference in my BAC, which I don't believe is true. Additionally, if Jesus Himself drank wine, made wine and served wine, and if one glass of wine will impair, then impairment is not the issue. Drunkeness is. What is the difference? We see in Scripture that those who were drunk were by no means just "impaired". Jesus was clear that just looking at a woman with lust was the same as lust but we cannot say that a drink is equal to drunkeness. So to argue impairness, other than in the argument against breaking the law (driving while impaired), is useless.
     
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Apparently because you won't like the answer to the querstion, so I'll put it another way.

    Do you want to be on a plane with an even minimally impaired pilot?

    Or sharing the highway with 80,000 lb. truck driven by a minimally impaired driver?

    Do you totally trust either the pilot or the truck driver to be able to determine their own moderation level?

    And by extension all pilots and truck drivers to do the same?
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    But we're not talking about minimally impaired because Scripture does not do so. Although, if you read it, "wine that makes the heart glad" or whatever it says does seem to point to some impairment in a positive light. Hmmmm....
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Again, let's get to the bottom line: Does scripture allow it?

    If it is true that any amount of alcohol consumed causes at least minimal impairment , it doesn't change the fact that scripture permits the consumption of alcohol. Therefore, whether one wants to acnowlege it or not, scripture allows one to be minimally impaired, so long as one is not drunk.

    If a person doesn't like that, take it up with God, and leave the rest of us to maintain individual liberty.
     
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Why won't you answer the question?

    Never mind. I know your answer. From all I can tell by your posts I've read, you don't have a stupid bone in your body. And if I'm wrong and you do, the FAA doesn't...when it comes to pilots and alcohol.

    OK. 3rd try.

    Do you believe that Christians are better able to determine their moderate limits than others?
     
  13. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Who decides where moderation ends and drunkenness begins?

    I'll ask you the same questions that annsni won't answer:


    Do you want to be on a plane with an even minimally impaired pilot?

    Or sharing the highway with 80,000 lb. truck driven by a minimally impaired driver?

    Do you totally trust either the pilot or the truck driver to be able to determine their own moderation level?

    And by extension all pilots and truck drivers to do the same?
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I would say that, since the Holy Spirit is in all believers, they have a wisdom that the world does not, so most likely they should be able to know their limits. They also have a love for their brothers and sisters and while they might know their limits, they will not worry about the limits and still forgo drinking because of them. I know that I can have a drink without feeling any effects but I choose not to drink any alcohol because our daughter's boyfriend had a problem with alcohol in the past. He knows that we have the liberty to drink but we do not for his sake. It's a small sacrifice for his benefit.
     
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but Alcoholics Anonymous is full of Christians.

    None of them have any sense of moderation at all...when it comes to alcohol.

    BTW I admire your choice concerning your daughter's boyfriend and your reasons for it.
     
    #55 carpro, Sep 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The reasonable individual will acknowlege that it is self-evident when a person has gotten to the point of drunkenness.
    No. But I have no problem with a pilot being minimally impaired in the privacy of his own home, so long as he is not drunk.
    No. But I have no problem with a truck driver being minimally impaired in the privacy of his own home, so long as he is not drunk.
    In the privacy of their own home, they are as capable as discerning their own moderation level as any reasonable person.
     
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No. It's a flesh issue, not a spiritual one. Now...a believer will be able to adhere to the limits better than others out of having a desire to please God and not sin.
     
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Does that mean the issue, to you, is where a person is... just in case they are not a good judge of their own moderate limits? And their level of moderation doesn't adversely affect the lives of others?

    Yet...
    Many nonbelievers would believe that was gross hypocrisy on the part of a Baptist, and perhaps other denominations who express a strong bias against alcohol.
     
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    They do but they choose to ignore it just as any of us ignore the Spirit when we sin.

    Thanks. He's such a great boy and I really respect him a lot for coming to us on his own to explain some of his past with alcohol. Fortunately he only got in trouble with his dad and didn't do anything stupid but his dad was firm that there were some consequences and he wanted to explain why, for example, he doesn't have his learner's permit to drive (he's not allowed to get that until he's 18 according to his dad). That was enough to keep us from thinking of drinking even after we were finished working with the college ministry. Will we someday in the future have a drink? Possibly. Will we possibly never drink again? Yes. Will I stop cooking with alcohol? No way! :laugh:
     
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Cooking with alcoholic beverages gives you the flavor, but the alcohol is gone, anyway.

    But my wife hates the taste, so I never get it either. Rats!
     
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