In Moderation....

He did back it with Scripture principals...you just didn't like the outcome.

 

Thanks, Webdog. I did indeed back it up with scriptural support.

Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding.
Jesus served wine at the Last Supper.
Jesus ate food and drank wine with sinners to the point he was accused of being a glutton and drunkard.
Scripture invites people to drink wine with a merry heart
Scripture says wine makes the heart of men glad
Scripture says having wine settles the stomach.

If a liberal view is noting what scripture so plainly says, then by all means, pour me a drink. It's clear, however, that scripture allows alcohol. SO allowing persons to consume it is a conservative position. Taking the position that scripture commands total abstinence means one would have to pretend these verses dont' exist. Therefore, commanding abstinence is the liberal position.

 

Which side of the debate do you want me on? I can make an argument either way.

 

The right side...mine

 

There's only one scripturally consistent position, and here it is:

Scripture permits the consumption of alcoholic beverages, but does not permit drunkenness. Drunkenness is categorically a sin. The simple act of consumign alcohol is not.

Aaahaahaa!!!

 

1st Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

1st Corinthians 10:28-31
28 But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake;

29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?

30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?

31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.


I see nothing at all wrong with drinking some. If a Christian thinks that Christians shouldn't drink, then those of us that have no issues about it shouldn't push it on them though.

I have NOT found a single verse, line or phrase that says you cant drink at all. But plenty about the dangers and sins of being a drunk. So yes, this is something to be done in moderation as I see it.

There is a HUGE difference between a person having a few drinks, and someone laying face down in the gutter covered in their own vomit and whatever else. :laugh:

 

Scripture also makes an argument for the priesthood of believers, as well as the the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit. Alcohol was forbidden for Priest when they were in service but permitted when not.

So therefore I can argue that since I am a priest and always in the presence of the Lord, alcolhol would be forbidden me.

I can also make a point that since a large number of Christian people beleive associate alcolhol with drunkeness, it would be better for me to abstain for the sake of my weaker brothers and sisters.

Or I could just say, "I don't care what they think, I'm going to do it my way." It is much more important to have a glass of wine than to consider someone else."

 

Another stance could be that since the Bible does forbid drunkeness. How much alcohol makes you drunk? Three glasses of wine? Four? Maybe five?

If so, how much drunkeness is permitted? Can I be 50% drunk and still be a witness for Christ? Maybe 25%? How much?

To be perfectly honest with you I do not have a stance one way or the other on this subject. Since i don't drink, it really doesn't affect me much. However, it is not quite as open and shut as many think on either side.

 

Then don't drink it. But don't tell others they aren't allowed, when scripture expressly permits it.

Again, then don't drink it. But don't tell others they aren't allowed, when scripture expressly permits it.

And that is scripturally permissible.

 

It's a poor argument, and here's why:

The same can be asked of how much food one can eat before qualifying as gluttony. The same can be asked of how much rest one can take before qualifying as sloth.

Sure it is. Eating is not a sin, but gluttony is. Resting is not a sin, but sloth is. Consuming alcohol is not a sin, but drunkenness is. That's open and shut. If a person lacks the maturity to discern what qualifies as gluttony, sloth, or drunkenness, then that person has other spiritual issues besides not knowing when constitutes drunkenness.

 

I don't feel your argument holds. Gluttony and slothfulness are not a physical change in the body chemistry. You can not measure how much sloth is in a person. It is totally subjective. Drunkeness is from a change in body chemistry and is objective. A person can't be 25% sloth but a person can be 25% drunk.
So I ask, "Does the bible permit 25% drunkeness?"

 

Sriptures allow me to take the stance that my will and having my way is more important than the spiritual stability of my brother or sister?

 

I've forgotten which side you were on! I'll have to go back and look.

Go Browns!

 

Scripture allows you the liberty to choose for yourself what you will do. It does not allow you the liberty to make that same choice for another.

 

A dietician will beg to differ.

I disagree. One person might be more impaired than another, but drunk is drunk. Don't get drunk.

 

Mark 7

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.​

 

I ask again, does the Bible permit a beleiver to be 25% drunk.

 

Actually they won't. I may have not made myselve very clear and I apologize for that. If I overeat at one meal it does not make me a glutton. Gluttony has a long term affect. Same thing for slothfulness.

And by the way, I agree that these are problems that the church needs to address and are sins.

However, drunkeness has an imediate affect. I can become drunk in just a few minutes.

 

Not if it is detrimital(sp)to others spiritual well being.

 

Johny,

Do you believe in the Priesthood of the believer?