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Featured . . . in sanctification of the Spirit . . . .

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The order of things in salvation.
    Election
    The Call
    Sanctification
    Repentance
    Faith
    Regneration.

    ". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.

    ". . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ." -- Ephesians 1:4.

    ". . . God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

    ". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." -- John 17:17.

    ". . . faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. . . ." -- Romans 10:17.

    Repentance precedes faith, Mark 1:15; 2 Timothy 2:25.

    ". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, . . ." -- Ephesians 2:8-9.

    Now a proof text that sanctification precedes repentance and faith is Hebrews 10:29 regarding a case of rejection of the faith, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Every time we sin. We deserve punishment for trodding underfoot the blood of Christ.
    MB
     
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Well, we already started off with an irreconcilable disagreement between Calvinists and non-Calvinists. The Monergist (Calvinist) Ordo Salutis is:

    Election/Predestination
    Atonement
    Gospel Call
    Inward (effectual) call
    Regeneration
    Faith and repentance (conversion)
    Justification
    Sanctification
    Glorification
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Then based on Hebrews 10:29 we are all hoplessly lost, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." ". . .
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Then salvation can then in fact be lost acccording to Hebrews 10:29, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ."

    Our freind @3rdAngel has made the case.
     
  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I believe that you may wish to re-think what Hebrews 10 is stating, in the light of these:

    John 3:16
    John 3:36.
    John 5:24.
    John 6:37-40.
    John 10:28-29.
    John 11:25-26.

    and many more.

    Read Hebrews 10:19-39 ( better yet, the whole book ) without stopping, and I think you will begin to see something different than what one verse alone might state, in the light of Christ's precious promises to His sheep.

    I remember having trouble with both Hebrews 6:4-6, and Hebrews 10:26-29 some years ago.
    I don't anymore, because of what I saw in other passages.
    To me, he hasn't made an airtight case.
    I see him taking his eyes off those precious promises that cannot be broken, and placing them on what other verses seem to state.;)
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You do not understand the issue. If sanctification is prior to repentance or if salvation is prior to sanctification. Both are not true. It is one way or the other in Hebrews 10:29? Or what? The sanctification jn Hebrews 10:29 was prior to that unbelief, was it not?
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This is the correct view. If you do not follow this, check and see where you went off the rails.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    WRONG!

    The scriptures are fine it is your interpretation of them that is in error. Here is why...

    SALVATION AND RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON...

    1. GOD'S WORD. If we do not have God's Word or do not know God's Word we cannot have faith in God's Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 17:17; JOHN 6:63; JOHN 1:1-14;

    2. FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's Word *2 PETER 1:4, (believing God's Word); JOHN 3:15-21

    3. REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 (changing your mind to follow Gods Word)

    4. CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

    5. BE BORN AGAIN (by faith in God's Word) *JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10 TO FOLLOW GOD'S WORD. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4. This is habbitual sin. Anyone who accasionally sins has an advocate with the father.

    ..............

    All of the above are conditions for receiving God's gift of salvation and God's Spirit through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9.

    If we have no faith we have no salvation because whatsoever is not of faith is sin *ROMANS 14:23. Repentance of SIN is one of the conditions for receiving God's Spirit *ACTS 2:38.

    If we have no repentance as have no salvation because the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23

    If we do not confess our sins we have no salvation because confession is a condition of forgiveness *1 JOHN 1:9

    If we are not born again to believe and follow God's Word we have no salvation because we cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven *JOHN 3:3-8.

    Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD receive God's Spirit. The teaching of "Once Saved Always Saved" is a false Gospel that has it's origin from the father of lies first proclaimed in the garden of Eden to Eve stating you can break God's commandments and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5.

    The scriptures you have provided are to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word and are not the problem. Your interpretation of what these scriptures however are in error. Only sent in love and as a help to you.

    All of God's Word and God's promises are conditional on believing and following them. Those who do not believe and do not follow are not God's Sheep (elect).

    God's Sheep (elect) hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

    God bless
     
    #9 3rdAngel, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No it is not. As the correct view, how was he sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?
     
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 10:29 is describing a fictional individual who was never in Christ. He was never sanctified salvifically, although he played the part. This type of person is described in 1 John 2:19 and Jude 4.
     
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  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    There are followers of the Arminius who would have no objection to the "Ordo Salutis" as stated in your post because in the beginning of the dispute between arminians and calvinists it was the criteria for the selection of the elect in dispute.

    Arminius : God selected the elect according to the counsel of His own will by looking down the corridors of time via His foreknowledge saw those who would accept Christ if they could chose and made them the elect.

    Calvin : God selected the elect according to the counsel of His own will by an unconditional choice/decree.

    the only difference between c and a is the criteria of selection.
    This was early on in the theological split.

    Later arminians put faith before rebirth and several other theological issue resolutions were adopted

    These facts was taught to me and several others here at the BB by our late and great Dr. Tom Cassidy,
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    One further thought : I am neither c nor a but m (Mugwump) because calvinists have an authoritative standard for almost nothing but must further explain their calvinist view by creating a thought meld with another author (or authors) of c persuasion. Arminians similarly.

    In fact i believe we are all in that predicament to one degree or another with an adherence to a common systematic theology view with several amendments of our own.

    It is not because we have no shepherd or too few shepherds but rather - too many shepherds.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Faith followed by repentance is a cult teaching. Mormonism and Churches of Christ cults.
    So it is you do not know what you are talking about.
    Repentance precedes faith.
    As Jesus taught, ". . . repent ye, and believe . . . ."
    Nowhere in the word of God where both terms, "repentance" and "faith" occur will you ever find any such order as, faith prior to repentance. Nowhere in Holy Scripture. Repentance is a change of mind or view, which must occur prior to changing one's belief.

    I studied this over 50 years ago.
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your unbelief. And no wonder, Hebrews 10:29 is explicit, ". . . counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." Which goes against limited atonement as well.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I personally do not believe the Holy Scripture teaches that the saved can become lost. Nowhere in Holy Scripture is there evidence against sanctification prior to faith. It is just not there.

     
    #16 37818, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Reformed has given you the correct answer.
    You laughed, [snip]

    So I will not interact with what seems to be clear error on your part.
     
    #17 Iconoclast, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2019
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Added note, that individual is not fictional. I agree he was never in Christ. But he was sanctified. Just to clarify my understanding of Hebrews 10:29.
     
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    We aren't by our selves we have an advocate Jesus Christ. Besides look at this verse again. It doesn't say we are lost but that we deserve a much sorer punishment Npt one of us deserves Heaven, we all deserve hell. This is why we wear the righteousness of Christ.

    Timothy is the only witness that says such things as this and you have to read it carefully. The Bible also says;
    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    It's true there is no more sacrifice because we already have Christ.
    When Mary Magdalene was saved there was no sacrifice on an alter or of the Blood of Christ yet Though she was saved by her faith. Christ told her so
    Luke 7:50
    MB
     
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The author of Hebrews was not writing about a specific person. He created a composite of a person who is best described as an imposter who played the part but was never part of the body.
     
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