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interesting info

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by 2Timothy4:1-5, Aug 3, 2003.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    This is an out and out lie. To care about the truth is to defend God's Word. You are refusing to do that. You are constantly attacking God's word, demeaning it, blaspheming it, and deriding it. I don't know any Catholics interested in killing the KJV. That is a sad ploy on your part. It shows once again that you are untruthful to try to align me with Catholics simply because i love God's word.

    These two statements don't go together. Your first sentence addresses believers and unbeleivers. Your second sentence addresses issues that believers have always had liberty to differ on. If you knew what you were talking about you would know this. You have submitted yourself to some very dangerous false teachers and you are now teachign others. As James reminds us, you will be held to a higher standard. As you mislead people with this false doctrine, you will be held accountable for it.

    Name one bookstore that you have seen any Greek text in, much less the WH. Very few bookstores have these because they are specialty items. I think this shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. As I have said, the modern versions use all the textual evidence. The WH text is vastly outdated. If you would learn, you would quit making these ridiculous uninformed statements.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    What say? Think somebody's been reading Chick Tracts again.

    Not a healthy place to get theology methinks. :eek:
     
  3. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Which KJV onlyist? How many groups of KJV onlyists do you know? </font>[/QUOTE]I was saved in a church that was as militant as you or anyone else on this board concerning this man-made doctrine. As I grew older and studied this doctrine for myself, I was able to see the just how ridiculous it was. Now, I would not even step foot in any church that teaches this false doctrine. This is one reason that I would be hesitant to attend any IFB church. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Whoa! You did not answer my questions.
     
  4. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    A Roman Catholic bible is not the KJV. One Catholic priest said, "If you read it, you are crazy." Why?

    Please show me.
     
  5. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Why? Simple. The KJB is some of the most anti-Catholic literature on this planet.And not to mention, it comes from the protestant texts of the reformation;the others,dont.
     
  6. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    All of my 5 questions?

    Wait! Firstly, you said, "I cannot speak for all." Secondly, you said here above. This is very obvious that you do not know these 5 Greek texts, except the UBS, one of 5 Greek Text that you are aware of.

    I test you if you know or not.

    I do not talk about manuscript evidences, but I talk about 5 Greek texts we currently have such as Bible study or tools.

    You go ahead to find any bookstores in your home location. I will not go in your home location and find it for you.

    You overlooked the facts concerning them. I used NASB for 10 years. I researched on the history of the Bible and manuscript evidence until I realized. I use the KJV for more 25 years.
     
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Please indicate where the KJV differs from the NAB to back up your claim. But since you have yet to biblically support your claim that the KJV being should be the only authoritative translation, I doubt you can support this claim as well.

    The TR is a reformation text? That makes more of case for the TR being fraudulent. Are you sure that's the route you wanna go down? It still doesn't explain why the KJV should be considered an authoritative translation.
     
  8. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Why? Simple. The KJB is some of the most anti-Catholic literature on this planet.And not to mention, it comes from the protestant texts of the reformation;the others,dont. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly, you are right! You get a gold star on your forehead. You get "A+" grade. :D [​IMG]
     
  9. AV Defender

    AV Defender New Member

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    NASb:Matthew 1:25.but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

    NAB(RCC bible):Matthew 1:25.He had no relations with her until she bore a son,and he named him Jesus.


    NASb:James 5:16. Therefore,confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.


    NAB(RCC bible): James 5:16.Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.


    Matthew 7:20(AV)
    Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
     
  10. Forever settled in heaven

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    maybe becos many KJBs today have been corrected of the Apocrypha.

    :D

    Please show me. [/QB][/QUOTE]


    whoa, not so fast. the onus is on KJBOs!!! hey, the fact is that there's nothing coming out of the Vatican on any regular basis regarding the KJB, WHEREAS they haven't at all been silent abt birth control n gay priests.

    y won't u show SOME evidence for a change? ;)
     
  11. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Askjo
    "A Roman Catholic bible is not the KJV."
    You must be the only person on this board who doesn't realize that this is obvious.

    "One Catholic priest said, "If you read it, you are crazy." Why?"
    Tell me more about your priest. I'll tell you about this priest that owns a KJV and thinks it is the best translation on earth in return.

    MV-Neverist
    "The KJB is some of the most anti-Catholic literature on this planet."
    Utter nonsense. The most anti-Catholic literature on the planet is fraudulent nonsense in the 50 years in the church of Rome mold. In my university days I got an assignment were I hadto write reviews of half a dozen of those works. Let's just say my respect for a certain branch of Christianity dropped considerably and I'm not talking about Roman Catholicism here.

    "And not to mention, it comes from the protestant texts of the reformation;the others,dont."
    Erasmus would have been quite surprised by your claim, but on the other hand it was the existance of folks with attitudes like yours among the leadership of the Reformation that convinced him not to switch sides.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Start reading and stop asking stupid questions. I said originally that all of them used the UBS text (which I am relatively sure of) but since I don't have them all and don't study them all, I cannot be dogmatic. But it makes no difference. This is a silly line of questioning.

    Again, start reading and stop asking stupid questions. First, I showed that you did not know what you were talking about with respect to these Greeek texts. You did not list 5 separate Greek texts. You omitted a number of Greek texts. I am aware of most of the Greek texts that are out there and I have a number of them. You fail to read and then pretend like I do not know what I am talking about. Get with the program. Open your eyes and stop saying things that aren't true.

    And I passed the test and showed to the contrary that you did not know what you were talking about.

    Here shows your ignorance about this matter. The Greek texts you list take into account all the Greek evidence available. So when you translate from the UBS or NA text, you are using all the Greek evidence available. The Greek texts (whether Majority or Eclectic) show us what the manuscript evidence is. Start learning ...

    I have it ... I don't need to find it in a bookstore. You are the one who said you had seen it so I wanted to you to tell us where. Chances are that you are not telling the truth about this. If you will simply give us the name of a bookstore where you have seen it, you will prove that you are telling the truth. Otherwise, we will have to assume that here, like other places, you are not telling the truth. The reality is that anyone who knows and has looked knows that you are not telling the truth about this.

    No I haven't. I have demonstrated fact after fact that contradicts you.

    Until you realized what?? If your current position is the result of your study, then you were taught by false teachers. You were taught by men who tell clear lies about the word of God. And now you, in violation of Scripture, have become a false teacher by propogating those lies on God's people. Your comments here have shown that you do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea about Greek texts. You cannot read them most likely. You wouldn't be able to tell a thing about the textual apparatus in the Greek Testament. In short, you are on the level of a waitress trying to play a doctor. You need to submit your mind to good theological training and leave this false teaching that you have accepted.
     
  13. Anti-Alexandrian

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    I submit this quote for your reading pleasure:

    In the introduction to the 24th edition of the Nestle’s Greek New Testament, editors Erwin Nestle and Kurt Aland make the following admission:

    "Thus the text, built up on the work of the 19th century (I wonder who that could be?) , has remained as a whole unchanged, particularly since the research of recent years has not yet led to the establishment of a generally acknowledged N.T. text" (Erwin Nestle and Kurt Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 24th edition, 1960, p. 62). (Emphasis mine).
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Why would you post this in refutation of yourself??? It admits what you deny -- that there is not a "generally acknowledged NT text." In other words, the quote given here refutes your position and shows mine to be correct. Those who know the Greek text landscape acknowledge this as truth. Those, such as yourself and your teachers, try to deny this.

    Thank you.

    BTW, when you add your own words to a citation, you use brackets ([]) not parenthesis. And the emphasis wasn't added. It was the whole statement that was added.

    Do some reading at this link: Necessary information It will give you some info that you need, as well as show how far off base Askjo's assertion of 5 Greek testaments (of which he only listed 3) is. Again, knowledge is great needed to carry on an intelligent conversation in this field. Please avail yourself of what most other people already know.
     
  15. Anti-Alexandrian

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    So you deny that its W&H's Greek text they used for their basis? Yes or no.
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The KJV says "firstborn son". But in the Greek, I don't find the word "firstborn". Why did the KJV translators add this word?

    The KJV reads "confess your faults". So lets again take a look at the Greek sourse text for the KJV. The Greek word is paraptoma which means "transgression" or "wrongdoing". It seems that "confess your sins" is a more accurate translation than "confess your faults".

    By these examples which you gave me, it appears that the KJV is an inferior translation. But I asked for support for your claim that the KJV was anti-catholic (and your claim that the RCC shuns it for that reason). These verses don't support that claim.
     
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    So you deny that its W&H's Greek text they used for their basis? Yes or no. </font>[/QUOTE]I have never denied that. Why would I? It would accomplish nothing for me to deny it, just as it accomplishes nothing for you to affirm it. It is a silly, desparate argument from a side with no facts to back it up. It has no place here. It accomplishes nothing. We are way past that point, both in the conversation and in textual history. You need to put aside your whining false teachers and catch up to reality.

    But I noticed that you did not answer my questions. I noticed that you (again) completely ignored the facts of the case in order to pursue your own notions. How sad ...
     
  18. Daughter of the King

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    Dear 2Tim:

    Thank-you for citing this excellent resource (and FREE!) for us. I genuinely appreciate it. While I generally tend towards using my ole faithful KJV bibles, I have been known to use some of the other translations on occasions. My pastor encourages us to use modern dialect (American translation, not the REALLY modern, dude sort of ones....) translations for evangelism. Since our pastors are our teachers, I have leaned on this position for some time. Only recently have I started to examine this topic for myself. :D This resource from Grace Community Church is an excellent addition to the calm and peaceful examinination for ourselves.

    One of the things I most appreciated is the explanation of some of the terms etc. that are used in the debate/discussion. As you see, I am rather a novice to the discussion, I don't already KNOW all the terms. One of my STRONG CONCERNS in the back of my head when I would read of Christians discussing the various manuscripts etc. was that this was opening Satan's door for including the Gnostic Gospels (heretical content) etc. and his desire to cast doubt on the inerrancy of God's Holy and Perfect Word. I can see (HEAVY sigh of godly relief!) that THIS IS NOT THE CASE! That the manuscripts in question are AV vs BV, not hey, some of these extras (heretical) over here. I am MUCH relieved!

    This does not mean I have yet thought this all out yet and made decisions for myself. Right now my biblical heads (my Elders/Pastors and my brother) are all saying it is acceptable to use any reliable (not that DREADFUL recent God-neutering Zondervan thing!) translation. As a lady, therefore, what I am studying is acceptable. However, I DO have more tools now to study this for myself and I will have to give an answer to my Lord in Heaven.

    Thank-you for this useful tool in the examination process. [​IMG]

    God bless!

    Sincerely,

    Princess,
    Because, you see, I a daughter of The King (hmmm, that makes you all Princes and Princesses, too!)
     
  19. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Hi,

    It's good to see you are studying. I just wanted to mention that there is no such thing as a "God-neutering Zondervan thing". [​IMG] You are probably referring to a gender inclusive translation: "gender inclusive" simply means that where one gender is obviously not to be excluded (e.g. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God."), it is changed to be "inclusive" of both genders (e.g. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."). Gender inclusive does not change gender when specific gender is necessary in the text, nor does it touch on the masculine references of God.

    God bless,
    Brian
     
  20. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Oh?? Look at this:

    "Virtually no one today uses the WH text for anything but comparison. The text used is generally the UBS text"

    And preface said:
    " Thus the text, built up on the work of the 19th century , has remained as a whole unchanged, particularly since the research of recent years has not yet led to the establishment of a generally acknowledged N.T. text" (Erwin Nestle and Kurt Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 24th edition, 1960, p. 62)."

    Why dont you quit playing games and fess up;the fingerprints of W&H are all over the MVs..Yes,no??
     
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