Interview with Rick Warren

Is God pleased by our "entertainment of the flesh" in His worship "in spirit and in truth"?

What ever happened to "amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me"; and Jesus Christ crucified--yes, a spiritual hymn and the Gospel--unwatered down.

These will not entertain the flesh--but will certainly prick the heart and turn the lost to the shed blood of Jesus.

Wake up--we are being mesmerized by pseudo-christianity. "Many will come in my name saying I am Christ, and will deceive many..."

"it is no wonder, Satan himself is become an angel of light."

Selah,

Bro. James

 

The carnival is actually a very good function for the church to have to gain community awareness and introduce people to your ministry. We have done a small one here. A friend of mine does it every year. It brings in families. You get a chance to introduce yourself to them and introduce them to your ministry.

 

Amen, PastorJeff,
We had the same experience at our church. But, alas, we slipped back into too much busy work.

 

Men(and women) starting churches?

In the wide world of religion every "church" was started by a fallible man, or woman. i.e. Constantine the Great started what became known as the Holy See(R.C.+Ortho.) Church, which still resides in The Vatican (also Istanbul). She is universal and visible. She has many daughters--started by excommunicated priests. Martin Luther started the Lutheran Church; Calvin, Zwingli, Knox, Wesley, all started their own churches;all of these "churches" are universal and invisible.
(Left out Henry VIII)

Later, people named Smith, Campbell, White, Eddy all STARTED churches which have sizeable memberships.


Then there is the Church which Jesus, the Christ is building. She is visible and local. Jesus is much more than a "good man"--He is God in the flesh--the only one authorized to start a Church--that authority which He gave to His first Church, which gave it to the second, third etc. right up to and including today.

From which church did you get your authority?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

I know many older people who ARE entertained by Amazing Grace, and it does make their flesh feel good. It is a perspective of what is entertaining. The Bible does not tell us NOT to entertain or be entertained. I see no difference between this and church socials, picnics, and potlucks.

 

I agree with the fact that there are fads out there. I worked at a bookstore. People would come in breathless needing to know if this book or that book was in. God help us if it wasn't. And I am speaking of Christians and the "religious" books they wanted.

Not too long ago, "Prayer of Jabez" was all the rage. Before long, there were so many books that went with it that it made me sick. Tee shirts, coffee mugs, bookmarks, etc. It will not surprise me if this PDL branches out as well. Too bad that people don't flock to the bookstores for the real deal----THE BIBLE!!!!!

 

Do we really need to have a carnival like atmosphere to bring people to the Lord's house?? Somehow that seems SO wrong! Just my opinion, of course.

 

Not sure this is the place to post this and if not please move it where it should be.

I have spent too many hours reading all the stuff on Rick Warren and the Purpose Driven Church. I felt that before I posted I should read it and I did.

I do not agreee with all that he does nor all that the tells the rest of us we should do. But there are some things we should be asking ourselves based on some of the principles he brings up.

I do a lot of visitation and find that as churches we think inside the box. What I mean is Sunday School, Morning Worship, Sunday night service and Wednesday night service. If people cannot meet at these given times then we do not have anything for them. Like it or not our culture is a 24/7, seven days a week. People work on Sundays becuse they are required to. We are not meeting their needs. We must look at what and how we are doing it and find ways to meet and reach peoples needs other than on Sundays. I believe we can do that without giving up Biblical Truths. What do you think?

Richard

 

I believe some do work on Sun. out of necessity, but not all. Until now ( because I'm a Pastor) I hadn't worked on Sun. for 10 Yrs. I don't find work the problem around here ( SW Kansas), I find " it's my only day to sleep in" the problem.

 

pastorjeff that my be true in SWKS but in a large metro-area, many people work on Sunday. In fact, some of our church member have to work on Sunday and miss either the morning or evening service. Many miss the Wednesday night service because of work.

Richard

 

Yes many work here too on Sun. You implied it was of necessity. I don't think that's wholly true. That's not the main point. I agree we need to try and reach those who have different scheduals than our church meets, and we need to get people plugged in, but sooner or later the church ( the people) has to make some choices. I made my choice not to work on Sun. I had a boss that wanted me to come in on Sun. I told him I could come in at 9 pm that night and work until morning if he wished, but I would not forsake the time set aside for worship. Whether it is Sun. morning or night or whatever time it is, most people can make it at one of the services that is offered. I don't think it's much different elsewhere.

 

I think I need to explain myself its not a carnival to reach the lost..I WISH IT WAS!!!! I think its a great idea....but its a carnival atmosphere inside our church its for the people that attend to try and get them to sign up for ministries. I am not saying its a bad idea but we have a large church but mostly of Sunday mornings only members, we don't have enough people to teach Sunday school ect..ect..ect...so its a pitch to go after those people.

intojesus

 

intojesus,
I can see where that would be a problem. I think it is common in alot of churchs. Unfortunalely it takes time to see people come out of that and grow in their relationship with both Christ and the church. The amount of time may vary, but it takes time none the less. I don't think the answer to this problem is to offer the latest "thing". I think it is to see them transformed into the image of Christ through discipleship ( relationships) that is grounded in the word of God. Keep giving the show,a nd it can hinder the growth, or make it a very shallow growth.

 

Dear pastorjeff,

Amen to that.....

intojesus

 

CARNIVAL--from carne=flesh--literally to glory in the flesh. Want to see it in person? Come to "The Big Easy" during Mardi Gras--the personification of "glorying in the flesh." Many "Christians" see no harm in this carnival either.

It still begs the question: How can we justify mixing flesh and spirit in the worship of God?

"Amazing Grace" makes me want to thank God for saving my soul. My flesh cringes when I hear it; but my spirit rejoices.

When I hear so-called Christian Rock before a service my flesh picks right up on the "congo beat" and that is a mesmerizing of the flesh, not focussed on the spiritual whatsoever. I really have trouble getting back to the right track--worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. I would rather leave the "flesh nature" outside the assembly.

To God be the Glory.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

What was wrong with the worship offered by Cain?
He worshipped God with an offering of the fruits of his labor. Abel brought a blood offering. Whose offering was acceptable to God? This rejection made Cain so angry he killed his brother.

Our flesh does not like to be rejected by God--but it is--without exception.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Have you been in a bookstore lately? Take a vinyl-covered "padfolio" that retails for $4.99, print "The Purpose Driven Life" on the front, put a few Scriptures inside and suddenly it's worth $19.99!

Drop another hundred bucks on a PDL refill pad, pen, tie clip and all the other accessories and pretty soon you'll be the envy of your trend-following "Christian" friends. Just beware when something goes wrong in these people's lives, they'll drop their PDL fad and Christ like a hot rock and move on to the next fad that makes them feel good about themselves.

 

Steveo,

No, actually, I have not been in a bookstore lately. I gather from what you wrote that PDL has gone Prayer of Jabez. It makes me sick! It is just another way to suck money out of someone, money that could be donated for missions, etc. It might be funny if it were not so sad!

 

Yes it has and it makes me sick, too. Another one is The Message translation. Almost all Bible translations have some degree of marketing and merchandising attached to them (even the KJV) but none so much as The Message. What starts as a bad translation is made worse by the mammon worship of it's publishers. I won't touch it.