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Irresistible Grace & Sanctification

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Monergist, Jun 15, 2005.

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  1. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    I'm saying what scripture says,... what say you?

    James 4:6
    But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

    And there's more:

    Genesis 6:8
    But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

    Exodus 33:16
    For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

    Exodus 33:17
    And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

    Ezra 9:8
    And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

    Proverbs 3:34
    Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

    Jeremiah 31:2
    Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

    Acts 4:33
    And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    Acts 13:43
    Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

    Romans 5:15
    But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    Romans 5:17
    For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

    Romans 11:5
    Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace

    Romans 12:6
    Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

    1 Corinthians 1:4
    I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

    2 Corinthians 8:1
    Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia

    Galatians 1:15
    But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

    Galatians 2:9
    And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

    Ephesians 1:6
    To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    Ephesians 2:5
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    Ephesians 4:7
    But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

    2 Timothy 1:9
    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Hebrews 4:16
    Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    1 Peter 5:5
    Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
     
    #21 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  2. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    I never said it did. Again, I say what scripture says:

    Acts 20:32
    And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

    Romans 3:24
    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Romans 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    Ephesians 2:5
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    Ephesians 2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
     
    #22 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  3. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Like I said Monergist, You don't have a clue about Grace! And until you acquire some rudimentary knowledge of the concept and essence of Grace you will continue blindly down the wrong theology pathway!

    Am I saying you are not saved? NO! I am saying you are in "La La land" regarding your religion! You have bought into the Calvinist party line hook line and sinker, and it is simply wrong.

    You are saved when you confess Jesus to be the Son of God, the Christ, and put your faith in HIM Alone! He said, I and the Father are one! So faith in Jesus is FAITH in GOD! Only You and God know whether or not you are saved!
     
    #23 Wes Outwest, Jun 23, 2005
  4. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Sure...He gives more grace when men respond to general (natural) revelation.

    First you quote this: "Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me!"

    Then I said though it's a nice song it is not absolute truth. Jesus Christ saves, not grace. Then you say "I never said it did." Well...you quoted a song that said the very thing.
     
    #24 OCC, Jun 23, 2005
  5. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    Right now its pretty much Wes vs. Scripture...and
    I'm going with scripture. Even if it means that I "...don't have a clue about Grace!"
     
    #25 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  6. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    Let me state this as clearly as I can (and I believe this is what John Newton meant)

    I AM SAVED BY GRACE

    Too put it bluntly, anyone here or anywhere else who is not is not saved at all.
     
    #26 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  7. OCC

    OCC Guest

    No..yer not. You are saved by grace THROUGH faith...in and BY Jesus Christ. Anyone who is not is not saved.
     
    #27 OCC, Jun 23, 2005
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Compared to the rest of the people in Noah's day, Noah had FAITH in God, therefore God Favored Noah, (grace equals unmerited favor) and saved Noah through Noah's God directed efforts to build an Ark. Noah's salvation in that instance was a combined effort wouldn't you say? A combination of faith and works? What say you?

    Don't convolute the scriptures with your Calvinist twistings!
     
    #28 Wes Outwest, Jun 23, 2005
  9. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    Are you repudiating scripture? Ephesians 2:5
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    That is true. But if you deny the other, you are denying the Word of God.
     
    #29 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  10. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    I say it was by GRACE.
     
    #30 Monergist, Jun 23, 2005
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    It is by god's grace, meaning the condition that God put himself in, that we can have the time (grace period) to hear God's word and believe in Him unto our salvation.

    God is being gracious to mankind so that mankind can hear his word, and respond to it. If God were not being gracious, since the wage of sin is death, the very first sin you commit would cause your death! That is not what God wants for man, so he is being gracious (favoring us) so that we can hear his word, believe, repent from sinning, confess our sins, receive his forgiveness, and live as righteously as we possibly can.

    That is grace, and nothing in it has the power to save. God alone has that power, and that power is not grace!
     
    #31 Wes Outwest, Jun 23, 2005
  12. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Monergist, I am not repudiating Scripture. Nowhere did I deny the Word of God. I am trying to teach you a simple logical truth. Yes you are saved by grace...that is the method that Christ uses to save you BY faith. But ultimately you are saved by CHRIST. It is sooooo simple...yet you ask if I'm repudiating Scripture? unbelievable...

    By the way, aren't Calvinists repudiating Scripture when they argue with verses such as...oh...John 3:16 AND 17? I love how Calvinists always lay charges of repudiating Scripture and then they blaspheme God saying that He is a crying wimp because He loves all men and desires them to be saved.

    Do YOU like being charged with blasphemy? I didn't think so. Niether do I...which Calvinists do when I say a Calvinistic god would be a monster. :cool:
     
    #32 OCC, Jun 23, 2005
  13. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    I say it was by GRACE. </font>[/QUOTE]Then you are denying the word of God which provides a rather graphic description of Noah's part in his own salvation from the flood! God did not build the ARK! He gave Noah the instructions on how to build it and Noah built it over a 100 year span of time! (a one hundred year grace period before God flooded the world.) Noah's Salvation took nearly 6 months before he set foot on dry ground again after the flooding began.

    It was Noah's FAITH that saved him, for without FAITH God would not have graced (favored) him. Without faith, Noah would have lost interest in building the ARK! Without Noah's faith, His son's would not have remained loyal to their father, but would instead have departed from him and lost their salvation! Without faith, not one man would have been saved, and it is the same today!

    Now get your facts straight!
     
    #33 Wes Outwest, Jun 23, 2005
  14. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    John Newton wrote poetically of God's grace wherein He was saved through his faith in God! He like Paul recognized his own inabilities and corrupt condition that prevented holiness. He recognized that if God had not been gracious toward him, he would not be saved, but would be eternally lost!

    Yes, it is only while God is being gracious toward mankind that mankind can come to faith in God and thereby be Saved through FAITH! Yes, God's Grace is absolutely essential for man's salvation, but it is not the power that saves man. God the person is the one who saves man, and he saves ONLY THOSE who have FAITH in HIM! That faith Comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God...WHILE GOD IS BEING GRACIOUS TO MAN!
     
    #34 Wes Outwest, Jun 23, 2005
  15. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    Scripture said: by grace ye are saved

    I said:I AM SAVED BY GRACE

    You Said: No..yer not.

    I guess you need a little wiggle room on this one. Making a calvinist strawman, like this one---

    ---doesn't help a bit.
     
    #35 Monergist, Jun 24, 2005
  16. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Monergist...Calvinists are king of the "strawman". Your last excuse for a response there shows you didn't read a word I said. I'm not going to explain it again.

    I would advise you to copy and paste everything I said in context next time, not snip little bits out to try and cast doubt on my character. Just so there is no doubt I will copy and paste everything I said...while still leaving it to you to read it over again for the first time.
     
    #36 OCC, Jun 24, 2005
  17. OCC

    OCC Guest

    No..yer not. You are saved by grace THROUGH faith...in and BY Jesus Christ. Anyone who is not is not saved. </font>[/QUOTE]And there you have it Monergist. I hope you're not a lawyer but your skillful use of leaving out the context of what I said may lead us to believe you are. :cool:
     
    #37 OCC, Jun 24, 2005
  18. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    I say it was by GRACE. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh Really?

    Care to expand on your response?

    Did grace build the boat?
     
    #38 Wes Outwest, Jun 25, 2005
  19. OCC

    OCC Guest

    I say it was by GRACE. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh Really?

    Care to expand on your response?

    Did grace build the boat?     </font>[/QUOTE]No...grace foreordained it...and elected Noah to build the boat. Then Noah got drunk. [​IMG]
     
    #39 OCC, Jun 25, 2005
  20. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Somewhat beneath what I expected from you KJ.

    Grace is powerless to do anything, including foreordaining anything!

    If you don't agree, prove your position!
     
    #40 Wes Outwest, Jun 25, 2005
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